Weights on Belts V. in BCD

[GrumpyOldGuy]

. Aww c'mon, virtually all the integrated systems are pretty darn reliable IF YOU PROPERLY SNAP, SCREW OR VELCRO THEM IN PLACE. Belts can fall off at least as easily due to the compression issues mentioned above. .

Belts don't fall off mid dive due to compression. They might rotate and maybe even slide down you butt on exit when climb out. This is a different issue than having a pocket drop off mid dive and risk accidental ascent.

So far, I have found integrated weight pockets on the bottom or witness accidental drops at least 6 times. Maybe it was user errors, maybe not. I have yet to see a weight belt drop off by accident. BTW: The zeagle rip cord system you have is probably the most reliable IW system I know of, many are not so reliable.

 

[Quero]

Belts don't fall off mid dive due to compression. They might rotate and maybe even slide down you butt on exit when climb out. This is a different issue than having a pocket drop off mid dive and risk accidental ascent.

So far, I have found integrated weight pockets on the bottom or witness accidental drops at least 6 times. Maybe it was user errors, maybe not. I have yet to see a weight belt drop off by accident.

Oh, I've seen 'em fall off mid-dive! Not too long ago I saw a diver in a group I was leading furiously finning down and reaching for the bottom. It was a skinny young woman, so not too much weight fell off her, but she was definitely buoyant and her gear was wanting to take her to the surface. I managed to grab her and get the weight belt to her while she replaced it. At any rate, a belt that has rotated so that the buckle is inaccessible can't be dumped, so the quick-release function is negated. And when the belt slides down over the legs, it's also a major safety concern. Belts DO fall off by accident, though mostly during the giant stride entry. One of my friends who is a dive boat tour leader (chief DM) told me that before his boat instituted a policy of charging for lost weights, they would have to replace approximately $500-$750 worth of weights and belts monthly during high season.

 

[GrumpyOldGuy]

^^ Point of clarification, I stated belts don't fall of due to compression. I.E. the properly buckled belt loosens a bit as you descend and can become a PITA, but does not drop off.

I think what you are describing is more in line with an improperly fastened belt. Neither system (IW or belt) is fool proof if not engaged properly. I.E. the belt falling off on a giant stride is not properly bucked in the first place.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

^^ Point of clarification, I stated belts don't fall of due to compression. I.E. the properly buckled belt loosens a bit as you descend and can become a PITA, but does not drop off.

I think what you are describing is more in line with an improperly fastened belt. Neither system (IW or belt) is fool proof if not engaged properly. I.E. the belt falling off on a giant stride is not properly bucked in the first place.

Have you ever tried an elastic rubber weight belt... like most all freedivers use? Their elasticity more than compensates for suit compression, so they don't slide around, fall off and this allows them to be worn very low on the hips (if that is were the diver prefers). I find them much more comfortable and secure than a typical scuba belt.

 

[Quero]

^^ Point of clarification, I stated belts don't fall of due to compression. I.E. the properly buckled belt loosens a bit as you descend and can become a PITA, but does not drop off.

I think what you are describing is more in line with an improperly fastened belt. Neither system (IW or belt) is fool proof if not engaged properly. I.E. the belt falling off on a giant stride is not properly bucked in the first place.

Point taken. I was responding to this part of your post, however.

I have yet to see a weight belt drop off by accident.

As to the belts falling off due to user error, I agree with that as well, and I would contend that the same is true for integrated weight system failures--when properly engaged, they won't fall out.

 

[GrumpyOldGuy]

As to the belts falling off due to user error, I agree with that as well, and I would contend that the same is true for integrated weight system failures--when properly engaged, they won't fall out.

Except they do. There are lots of designs for IW pockets and some are excellent (Zeagle Ripcord is one). Others are not so good so I don't want to say all are bad, but in general I don't believe the reliability of a simple belt.

At one point I had 3 Mares IW jackets with the MRS 2 weight pockets and had multiple drops. At first I thought it was user error also (many of the drops were from my kids). Later I found several causes there were not related to failure to engage the release properly. After the first time, I started checking their pockets and they checked mine and we were super anal about it, but still continued to have a few drops until we nailed some a few other issues. All said and done, we had to replace 3 pockets over 2 years. Since then we are stable.

2X I had the pouches drop when re-boarding a boat. They worked fine for an hour long dive so they must be been inserted properly, but snagged on the ladder.

2X I traced drops to putting other things in the adjoining pocket (safety sausage). When the pocket was loaded to capacity and nothing in the pocket, it held. Add another lump of gear and the retention mechanism failed. It appears sometimes the extra gear would push on the IW pocket and release mid dive.

1X I found a strap pulled through which instantly released the pocket when you went horizontal. The MRS system has 2 straps. One is connected to the release handle and one carry's the load. The anchor is a tab pushed through a slot. It was pulled though by accident at some point. The pocket would load and snap into place as normal. Everything from the outside looked normal, but it would not hold a load as soon as you rotated from vertical to horizontal. Once I figured out what it was, it was a simple fix.

That's my personal experience. As I stated before, I have found plenty of pockets on the bottom at local training sites, probably close to 50lbs total. Sometimes I find the owner, sometimes I just add it to my collection (Hey the good news is I never have to buy lead again). Based on this I assume I an not the only one having some troubles with IW pockets.

Since then I don't trust the MRS pockets with a full load of lead needed for 7MM or dry suite. Its fine for warm water to holding 5-7lbs. Nothing more.

 

[Quero]

It's true that weight pockets have load limits--maybe yours were surpassed? I have been diving for years and years in a professional capacity with integrated weights and have never lost a single pouch, and I've never seen a lost one on the bottom either (though I know there are some). For example, one of my divers once lost one, but it was when she was boarding the dinghy and tried to hand a pouch up to the boat boy but lost her grip on it, not because it fell out of her BC. I find all sorts of stuff people drop--reels, dive lights, knives, but never a weight pouch. And yet I've found hundreds of pounds of weights on the bottom from belts. Maybe your BCDs are poorly designed; there are also poorly crafted weight belt buckles that fail through no fault of the user. I still maintain, however, that unintended loss of the weight system is overwhelmingly due to user error. I see it all the time.

 

[Centrals]

...... Belts DO fall off by accident, though mostly during the giant stride entry.......

Poor basic technique!!
I was told to put my left hand on the buckle and the palm of my right hand on the primary 2nd stage while pressing on the mask with the fingers before taking the giant stride. Same for back roll.
Metal buckle is better than plastic. It "bites" better on the belt!
BTW, belt is easily spotted and recovered. And some divers will just remove the weight and keep the belt!!!

 

[NE_SSI_Diver]

I use to use my BC integrated weight pockets for all my weight, and I still use them for warm water diving. When only using 6 or 8 pounds in the caribbean I don't see anything wrong with using the BC.

However, when the weight increases it can put stress on the BC and also make it quite heavy. So for cold water diving, in a drysuit, I use a DUI weight harness. For people unfamiliar with DUI harnesses, It is similar to a weight belt but the weight is supported by the shoulders. You can wear it comfortably out of the water and doesn't feel too heavy, even with 20lbs in it. That's all the weight I need for drysuits so all my weight is in the harness, and is slung low on my body (an easy solution to ankle weights).

 

[windapp]

I find that when I dive with a thick wet suit, and require a lot of weight, my BCD pulls down on my shoulders a lot more than I would like when I am using integrated weights. I really find that walking around on land is a lot easier with a weight belt.

However, I tend to be bottom heavy, and the integrated weights are a l higher than a weight belt, so my trim is a lot better with integrated.