Warranties on gray market sales

[Swan1172]

nope, because they only require you visit a Authorized dealer to get warranty work performed, they don't require you to choose one business, there are many you may choose from.

Good site on all this

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/buspubs/warranty.htm#Magnuson-Moss

cerich,

You are missing the point. I am not talking about the warranty service. I am talking about the manufacturers' policy that states that their warranty is null-and-void if you don't buy their equipment from one of their authorized retailers.

Here is an excerpt from a letter from ScubaPro:

"All online companies that sell and make direct purchases of our product, like Leisure Pro are not an authorized SCUBAPRO UWATEC dealer and SCUBAPRO UWATEC equipment obtained through channels other than SCUBAPRO UWATEC Authorized Dealers does not carry the SCUBAPRO UWATEC Limited Lifetime/Limited Warranty. If you so choose to purchase SCUBAPRO UWATEC products online, the warranty will be voided."

Seems like a pretty clear violation of Magnusson-Moss to me.

 

[Mafiaman]

As a large amount of scuba is a life support gear a manufacturer would open them selfs up to major law suits in the event a consumer requested and was denied warranty work on a item that failed and caused bodily harm or death. Regardless of point of sale.

 

[Canadian.Diver]

I think it would go a long way for the rep of a manufacturer if they honor a warranty regardless of where the the product was bought or even second or third hand. As long as a serial number can prove its their product and not a knock off. Honoring a warranty says I believe in my product and I stand behind it. I remember the first reg I ever bought , the local DS did'nt tell me I had to bring it in every year (diving for 2 months , I didn't know anything) and so when I brought in for service a year and a half later with only a dozen dives on it. They would not honor the warranty. So now I have seven regs I have bought some on ebay some from friends and some from dive stores and I pay for parts and service . So my loyalty is based solely on performance and not on how good a waranty from a particular manufacture is.

 

[RonFrank]

I doubt ANY manufacture has not consulted with a team of lawyers prior to drawing up their documents included policies, warranties, and so forth.

Laws contradict one another all the time. A great example is the second amendment where we have the right to bear arms, yet local, state, and federal laws restrict or make that illegal, and even go so far as to define just about ANYTHING as a fire arm in places like Denver where you can be arrested on a weapons charge for carrying a rock!

A Lawyer once said, it's not what is right or wrong, or even what is written in law, but rather what I can argue, and they LOVE to do that, on YOUR DIME!

IMO if a warranty is important, than make sure you get one when you purchase. Many online retailers are authorized dealers, and offer warranties.

For most items, I could give a fig about a warranty. I can count the number of times I've actually used a warranty on one hand. I generally consider a good return policy more important than a warranty as in my experience products are generally DOA, or they work well past the warranty period.

 

[Swan1172]

I guess one thing that throws a lot of people off is the difference between a "warranty" and a "free parts program". They are two entirely different things. A manufacturer can offer free parts as long as you use one of their authorized service centers and have your equipment serviced at the intervals that the manufacturer sets. However, I don't see how they can void a warranty simply because you chose to buy from a non-authorized retailer.

To me, a warranty is a promise that the material and workmanship of a product are without defect or will meet a specified level of performance over a specified period of time. In that light, what difference does it make where I choose to buy the product?

 

[PalatkaBoy]

I was not thrown off. You stated this was a violation of the tie-in cluase. It is not. A later post uses UWATEC as an example. You state UWATEC uses a limited lifetime warranty. Limited Lifetime in MOST cases means original purchaser. If you do not have a retail agreement with the manufacturer, then you ARE the original purchaser and the manufacturers warranty period starts. If it is limited lifetime, if the original purchaser sells said warranted item, then the warranty lapses. If LP or any other 'unauthorized retailer' gives you a warranty card, the work or replacement is usually provided by themselves.

But as the original post stated, it may be a violation of the MM, but not the tie-in clause.

 

[Web Monkey]

In terms of scuba manufacturers, where I see them having a problem is with the "Tie-In Sales" provisions of the Act. Generally, tie-in sales provisions are not allowed. Such a provision would require a purchaser of the warranted product to buy an item or service from a particular company to use with the warranted product in order to be eligible to receive a remedy under the warranty. In other words, a scuba manufacturer cannot legally dictate who sells the product, nor who provides the service in order for the warranty to remain in effect.

What does everyone else think? Do anyone know if this has ever been challenged?

I'm not sure there's anything to challange. The manufacturer specifically states that the warranty is void unless you buy it from "these places". If you buy from "somewhere else" you get no warranty. It's not like you were deceived about it.

LP can offer low prices not because they're such generous people, but because the manufacturer gives them a good price because they'll never have to see the reg again.

Warrantees cost money. If you want a warranty, you have to pay for it, which in this case means an "authorized" dealer.

LP has no magic access to cheap regs. Some is from dealers that go out of business,Some is from dealers that overbought and need to get rid of overstock, and a lot is from manufacturers dumping stock that didnt' move. In any case, they can demand (and get) a great price because the seller knows that that item will no longer be a liability.

Terry

 

[Swan1172]

It is a violation of the tie-in clause, because ScubaPro is telling you that unless have your ScubaPro product serviced using their parts by one of their authorized service providers, your warranty is void. That is like GM telling you that the warranty on your car is no longer valid because you went to Jiffy Lube for an oil change and that they used Castrol instead of GM oil.

Like I said, I can understand this in terms of their free parts program, but not their warranty.

 

[Thalassamania]

I doubt ANY manufacture has not consulted with a team of lawyers prior to drawing up their documents included policies, warranties, and so forth.

Laws contradict one another all the time. A great example is the second amendment where we have the right to bear arms, yet local, state, and federal laws restrict or make that illegal, and even go so far as to define just about ANYTHING as a fire arm in places like Denver where you can be arrested on a weapons charge for carrying a rock!

A Lawyer once said, it's not what is right or wrong, or even what is written in law, but rather what I can argue, and they LOVE to do that, on YOUR DIME!

IMO if a warranty is important, than make sure you get one when you purchase. Many online retailers are authorized dealers, and offer warranties.

For most items, I could give a fig about a warranty. I can count the number of times I've actually used a warranty on one hand. I generally consider a good return policy more important than a warranty as in my experience products are generally DOA, or they work well past the warranty period.

You're right, as long as the items works ouf of the box the warrantee really buys you nothing except overpriced yearly services with free parts that cost more than a full service with the parts should.

BTW: We both know that the second ammendment does offer a blanket right to bear arms.

 

[Swan1172]

I'm not sure there's anything to challange. The manufacturer specifically states that the warranty is void unless you buy it from "these places". If you buy from "somewhere else" you get no warranty. It's not like you were deceived about it.

Terry,

It is a matter of federal law, as The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act specifically says that you can't do this. Generally, tie-in sales provisions are not allowed. Such a provision would require a purchaser of the warranted product to buy an item or service from a particular company to use with the warranted product in order to be eligible to receive a remedy under the warranty.