Warped View of the Dive World

[awakefie]

It certainly would not surprise me to find:

a. The majority of people who do a dive do so in warm (tropical) waters;

b. The majority of people who do a dive use an AL 80; and

c. The majority of people who do a dive use a jacket BC.

It would also not surprise me to learn that a majority of people who do a dive under the circumstances outlined above:

a. Have minimal diving skills (i.e., lack consistent buoyancy control), and

b. Make fewer than 8 dives every 24 months.

Several years ago I had the pleasure of spending a week in the BVI with an instructor who had > 1000 dives (I think he had about 1500 dives) -- all of which were in the type of conditions outlined by the OP. This instructor was a very nice diver who showed us numerous wrecks and reefs in the BVI (and yes, most of the dives were "led" by him -- why not? he knew the area).

In discussing diving with him, however, he freely admitted his view of diving was very skewed and that if he attempted to dive in, say, Puget Sound, he would be an absolute newbie -- and I'd guess he would not be very comfortable either due to the cold and poor viz/darkness. He knew what he didn't know and knew that different environments have different issues. What he also knew, and what the OP appears not to accept, is that the skills and gear needed to be a "good diver" in extreme environments can easily translate to benign environments (spring straps are so much easier to use when one has big heavy gloves) whereas the converse is not necessarily true.

As to other points -- there is a lot of recreational diving going on in cold(er) waters -- without anywhere near the numbers of people diving but, instead, fewer people diving a lot. (We have to justify the thousands of dollars we spend, don't we?) Now "a lot" is still the minority, I'm sure -- but a strong minority none-the-less.

The biggest difference though is that the minority of divers who are doing many dives each year are also the ones who, FOR THE MOST PART, have the best diving skills and understand why some gear is more appropriate than other -- EVEN IF the other, perhaps less appropriate, gear will work OK, especially in more benign diving sites (aka Maui).

Even though those divers, the ones who are diving frequently, have more training and more experience and experiences, may not be frequenting the dive sites identified by the OP (aka, the "typical tropical dive") their advice may well still be appropriate -- and perhaps much more appropriate than the advice given by someone who has very limited experience and experiences. Going back to my BVI instructor companion -- HE was quite willing to admit that my experiences gave me a much broader background from which I could give my opinions on skills and gear.

This, btw, is one of my biggest complaints about "the typical PADI instructor" -- which is the narrowness of the instructor's diving experiences. I don't care if one does 200 or 400 or 600 dives during his diving instructor training -- IF all the diving is under similar circumstances, then, in fact, the person is only doing 2, 4 or 6 dives 100 times each. My BVI instructor companion was very open about that which is why he was, truly, interested in what those of us with very different diving experiences could teach him.

I remember the first time me and my buddy hit 65 feet in fresh water on day when viz was less than ideal. It got dark as night and I remember looking over and only being able to make out the red detail on my buddy's BC. We didn't stay long... We had no lights! How smart of us! We learned though and because of our frequent diving in a vast array of different conditions we learned a great deal about what techniques and gear are ideal regardless of conditions. Thats how we know what skills/gear will save our lives when things get bad.

I have friends who dive tropical constantly and haven't hit the fresh water since their OW class if even then. Spring straps are a great example. I'm not sure how I ever dove without them. My tropical diving friends have no idea why I like them. I guess the way I look at it is Why would they? They never wear thick gloves or experience the decrease in mobility that comes along with most 7MM suits.

I don't think of them as better or worse than I am. When I go diving in their territory I sometimes find myself care free and complacent. Which in my opinion puts me at greater risk. I try to remind myself that just because I can see clearly and I have a better freedom of motion doesn't mean nothing can go wrong.

On the flip side, I worry about my tropical based friends diving my local spots. An adjustment is necessary and that can be difficult after diving in pristine waters.

I also think that maybe we are comparing based on the wrong terms. Maybe these statements are typical of most divers, but not necessarily of most dives?

Just a thought.

It is also worth mentioning that I have learned many things from "tropical divers" and that I have no less respect for them. In fact I envy them most of the time.

 

[awakefie]

Thanks for a thought-provoking thread.

...Like all of us, my perception is colored by my experiences; this, I think, is what you're getting at?

No particular order, just as they come to mind:

• I perceive the Majority of recreational divers will never make it to 20 logged dives
  
• I perceive the Majority of recreational divers will have a gap of 6 years between training and diving
  
• I perceive the Majority of recreational divers will do these dives in warm water
  
• I perceive the Majority of recreational divers will do these dives as incidental to a vacation, not as the reason for the vacation

• I perceive the Majority of recreational dives done is split 50/50 between cold water/warm water
  
• I perceive the diver that dives more than 80 non-professional dives/year is well skilled and self-sufficient
  
• I perceive the well-skilled diver of today eclipses the well-skilled diver of 20 years ago
  
• I perceive the freshly-certified diver of today pales in comparison to the same of 20 years ago

and lastly

• I perceive the Majority of recreational divers use open-heel fins, and don't know how to use them

Cheers!


All the best, James

YES!!!! Agreed

 

[theduckguru]

I perceive 66% of the OW certs issued will never be used 2 years after certification and more than $250 million in dive gear stowed in closets that haven't been wet in more than 7 years.

Edit - make that 500 million. I forgot all those mask, fin and snorkle sales.

 

[Diver0001]

It varies from region to region. In my area, you will not find a single dive shop that only sells jacket style BCDs ... and most will offer some sort of BP/W option. All will have one or more lines of drysuit for sale ... they wouldn't long remain in business otherwise.

This is my experience too.

Very few shops here don't sell nitrox. And I would estimate that about half will offer some level of tech training.

Also my experience aside from shops that are in the city. Dutch bureaucrats start to pee in their pants when they hear the word "oxygen" and they won't give permits to shops set up nitrox stations anywhere near where people live. "Storing oxygen" or "venting Nitrogen" makes them start to minutely inspect their navels and act like they don't hear you talking.

Anyone who writes cold-water destinations off as "fringe" is delusional ...

Well, Bob, I think in terms of numbers of divers he may have a point in saying that the majority of divers go to the tropics to dive. Where I think he misses the point is that the vast majority of *serious* divers dive locally wherever they live. That should be a no-brainer. So calling those divers (ie, the most active and passionate among us) the "fringe" is a little odd.

Someone accused me of not liking that he said that. To be honest, I neither like nor dislike that he said that, but in my mind that comment expresses arrogance and ignorance and I said so. I'm sorry if someone felt it was too strong but it *is* what I thought, and I'm sure the "vast majority" of "fringe" divers would agree LOL.

R..

 

[boulderjohn]

I agree that the level of support you get from the industry boils down to economic decisions ... but I don't think you can summarize it in a monolithic comment. It varies from region to region. Bob (Grateful Diver)

I think that is exactly what I was trying to say. A dive shop will support whatever kind of diving that makes sense for them in their local economy.

 

[TMHeimer]

Well, If you look closely I did not even type that "I think the vast majority use full foot fins"

Yeah, my poor choice of words. When you say you think it is highly likely that the vast majority of dives are full foot, I'm not necessarily disagreeing--though in my very limited experience, this has not been the case. But I would like to know if you base this on some statistic, or your personal experience (which I know is considerable). I have used FFFs myself in N. Florida for snorkelling, but this is the only time I've even seen them used, due mostly to my cold locale, of course.

 

[boulderjohn]

As for fins, here is what I see...

I will agree that the vast majority of the divers we certify in our shop in Colorado will be almost exclusively warm water divers. Although we are trying to change that, 85% currently take referrals from us to warm water sites for their certification. We have a dive club that is almost exclusively warm water resort divers.

Almost all of these students purchase fins when they take the class. We also sell a ton of fins to experienced divers.

Only a tiny minority of new students or experienced divers at our shop purchase full foot fins. I am quite surprised when I see it happen. Open heel is BY FAR the norm.

That is consistent with what I have seen in the places I have dived around the world. If you had asked me, I would have said the vast majority of divers use open heel fins.

 

[oldogre]

US diving appears to be very different to European diving. I got no 8, yes 1 in the survey.

 

[Adobo]

OK, so, on to MY warped view of the dive world

I think the VAST MAJORITY of "recreational" dives made in the World are made in waters 70 degrees F and warmer.

I think the VAST MAJORITY of "recreational" dives made in the World are made with Aluminum 80 cubic foot-ish tanks.

I think the VAST MAJORITY of "recreational" dives made in the World are made using Vest BC's.

I think the VAST MAJORITY of "recreational" dives in the World are made wearing 5 mm or less wet suits.

I think the VAST MAJORITY of "recreational divers" first OW courses were "booked" as 3 or 4 day classes.

I think it is highly likely the VAST MAJORITY of "recreational" dives made in the World are made using full foot fins.

I think it is highly likely the VAST MAJORITY of "recreational" dives made in the World are "guided dives."

I think it is highly likely the VAST MAJORITY of "recreational divers" will go "deep" within their first dozen logged dives. (>100')

I think it is highly likely the VAST MAJORITY of "recreational divers" will go "under rock" within their first dozen logged dives. (Cavern, not arch)

Those last four may very well be due to me living 2 decades in Hawaii. :cool2:

I think the Dive Industry has "evolved" to supply the demand generated by the customers clamoring for the above list.[/B].

Based on?

OK, so, on to MY warped view of the dive world

I think the "fringe" of the Dive World (those not in 70 degree F or warmer water and those not "recreational") contending that the Dive Industry is not supporting their Dive World is like a Lamborghini dealer in Anchorage, Alaska contending that the Auto Industry is not supporting their Auto World.

The people who dive Monterey/Carmel CA do not fit your characterizations. Nor do the people who dive in LA or San Diego. Nor do the people who dive Washington state. Or in BC, Canada. Or Alaska. Or the north east US. Or the people who dive up and down the east coast of the U.S. These areas all have healthy diving communities. And of course, there are all of those folks who dive in lakes and quarries all through the upper 48. The fringe might be a little bigger than you realize. It certainly would seem proportionally just a little bigger than what the lone Lamborghini owner in Alaska would represent.

Based on your description of where you have been diving (Hawaii and Florida), it is not hard to see why your opinions are what they are. It's also not hard to see why people who read your "this is all I have seen therefore this is most if not all of it" opinions would characterize them as warped.

 

[Amphiprion]

Since I was certified in 1988, I have only done one dive with full foot fins, and that is simply because I accidentally left my regular fins at the hotel. In fact, other than dive guides on boats who dive multiple times per day, I have never seen recreational divers wearing full foot fins.

Perhaps the diving under rock thing is due to the conditions in Hawaii, but I have not found this observation to be true. Unless you are counting coral tunnels less than 40' in length - what I would call a swim through.

Regarding depth over 100 feet in the first 12 or so logged dives, I have not found this to be true. I have found many divers going over the initial 60' suggested limit, but not over 100' within the first 12 logged dives - more like 80 feet or so.

I would say that the rest of your observations are true. Although I did end up on a boat one time in Cozumel where all of the recreational divers were wearing bp/w. They certainly were not DIR people based on regulator configuration and the spit fins.

Regarding vests, I think a lot of new (male) divers with cash to burn are going to go towards the really flashy vest with the integrated weights, 23 D rings and the name like Black Cobra Pro Abyss rather than the boring looking backplate and wing with no weight integration. Those vests will probably serve the majority of recreational divers just fine.