Warning: Bad Belize Dive Experience

[diversteve]

So first of all you took all credit for changing everything then you did it with consultation. True colors.

Read it again. First of all simply refers to the first point in my comments to Mike - it has nothing to do with the chronology of when I contacted the OP - which was before the title change - twice. It had nothing to do with taking credit for it either.

(paraphrasing the ToS for brevity)

Moderators...When they deem it in the best interest of ScubaBoard, may edit or delete any content posted on the site.

Still smarting over the SP thread move I see. Let it go, that was so 2 months ago...you're right about one thing though -

the pettiness of their remarks.

seems to apply to your post also.

 

[Downing]

Well, other than the original misleading and unfair thread title I was inclined to take the OP's post at face value.

So, how about that boat with divers on board sinking at the Blue Hole? Anyone have info on that? Peter?

 

[peterbj7]

I have just spent 40 minutes writing a detailed response to everything in this thread and when I hit [Enter] it vanished. Not the first time that's happened to me on this forum. I was defending the dive operation concerned and criticising some of the comments made above. I'm not going to repeat it all here. Briefly the individual diver has far more personal responsibility than some posters have exhibited. Many people make dives with this operator and don't have any of these reported problems. Sure, they've made mistakes, but then all dive operations here (and many elsewhere) make mistakes from time to time. I know for a fact they spend a fortune on boat maintenance, as do all other operators.

---------- Post Merged at 05:20 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 05:18 PM ----------

how about that boat with divers on board sinking at the Blue Hole? Anyone have info on that? Peter?

I've heard absolutely nothing about it. Perhaps it wasn't from San Pedro?

 

[flareside]

I submit a motion that this thread be locked as it has gotten way off track and is no longer serving any productive purpose.

 

[peterbj7]

I don't think it ever did...

 

[Mike]

I have just spent 40 minutes writing a detailed response to everything in this thread and when I hit [Enter] it vanished. Not the first time that's happened to me on this forum. I was defending the dive operation concerned and criticising some of the comments made above. I'm not going to repeat it all here. Briefly the individual diver has far more personal responsibility than some posters have exhibited. Many people make dives with this operator and don't have any of these reported problems. Sure, they've made mistakes, but then all dive operations here (and many elsewhere) make mistakes from time to time. I know for a fact they spend a fortune on boat maintenance, as do all other operators.

---------- Post Merged at 05:20 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 05:18 PM ----------

Seriously? You've posted how as a dive shop owner you're concerned with diver safety, have tried and failed to qualify divers only letting them dive the blue hole once qualified by you, and listed the failure of that due to your competition's cut throat business methods of under cutting pricing, yet now the dive operation in question is once again being whitewashed as following all proper dive procedures on yet another reported blue hole dive trip reported by yet another diver who questions the business practices of the dive operation and dive masters regard for dive safety.




The United States State Dept has issued a warning about diving in Belize it's so out of control there: Belize



US DEPT OF STATE

BELIZE:

Boats serving the public, especially water taxis, often do not carry sufficient safety equipment. Many carry an excessive number of passengers and may sail in inclement weather. Rental diving equipment may not always be properly maintained or inspected, and some local dive masters fail to consider the skill levels of individual tourists when organizing dives to some of Belize’s more challenging sites. Deaths and serious injuries have occurred as a result of the negligence of dive tour operators, the lack of strict enforcement of tour regulations, water taxis diverging from routes when tourists are in the water, and tourists’ neglect of their physical limitations.



Another diver reports yet another questionable dive experience and everyone wants to shoot the messenger?????

 

[Doc]

The United States State Dept has issued a warning about diving in Belize it's so out of control there:
US DEPT OF STATE BELIZE:
Boats serving the public, ....

The complete text (not quoted above) was truly written by a non-diving bureaucratic attorney.

Water Safety: Boats serving the public, especially water taxis, (read: cruise ship ferry boats) often do not carry sufficient safety equipment. Many carry an excessive number of passengers and may sail in inclement weather. Rental diving equipment may not always be properly maintained or inspected (Imagine that!), and some local dive masters fail to consider the skill levels of individual tourists (how about~ qnd Tourists should be forthcoming as to their skill levels and should expect to present log books at legitimate operations) when organizing dives to some of Belize’s more challenging sites. (read: Blue Hole) Deaths and serious injuries have occurred as a result of the negligence of dive tour operators, (and possibly the ineptitude or the inability of guest divers) the lack of strict enforcement of tour regulations (like what?), water taxis diverging from routes when tourists are in the water, and tourists’ neglect of their physical limitations. (at last, a skewed reference!) The Embassy strongly recommends that anyone interested in scuba diving or snorkeling while in Belize check the references (on Trip Advisor, fer shure!), licenses (how?), and equipment (how?) of tour operators before agreeing to or paying for a tour. The Embassy further recommends that U.S. citizens be forthcoming in reporting pre-existing medical conditions to their dive tour operators (Making them the determining medical authority) , and comply (Were you told "no" or weren't you?)when a dive tour operator prohibits participation in such activities due to a U.S. citizen’s health condition. Safety precautions and emergency response capabilities may not be up to U.S. standards. (In what country would they be?) All tour guides and boat captains are now required to be licensed by the Government of Belize. (Not DM's nor the role that they must play) The only hyperbaric recompression chamber in Belize is located in San Pedro Town, Ambergris Caye. (By most tropical standards, that is pretty good access)

_______________

Bureaucratic Clap Trap ~ These are the same morons who gave you _______ (fill in the blank)

This could and does apply to just about all tropical dive destinations. I wonder what the beef that State Dept has with Belize? Last year it was Honduras and "the coup".

What did Belize do to piss of Hillary?

 

[TSandM]

I think Devon Diver pretty much nailed this one early on.

I have dived in pretty remote places. I have dived from boats that had no safety equipment to speak of -- no oxygen, no radio. You're going to see this kind of thing, in places where the infrastructure is poor and the people are, too. What you have to do in those circumstances is pick your dives. When we dove on Rarotonga, we were within a couple of hundred yards from shore, in shallow water, and it was warm. Had everything gone to hell in a handbasket, we could have swum for shore and begged a local for transport. DCS was vanishingly unlikely at 30 foot depths, and both of us are in good health. Did we take a risk? Of course. Did we think it was a reasonable one? Yeah . . . and we had no issues, although a successful outing is far from data.

As the owner of a boat, I am extremely aware that marine environments and engines and electronics are fundamentally incompatible. We do the best we possibly can, at really painful expense, to keep the boat well-maintained, and even so, about half of our outings are marked by some kind of malfunction. I can't imagine what's involved in the upkeep of dive boats in the tropics, where salt water and sun compete to age everything. An isolated malfunction or failed hose doesn't perturb me, and there is no combustion hazard to blowing compressed air on something. (50% Nitrox would be different!)

The rest of the complaints . . . lack of buddy pairs, people going to excessive depths, short surface intervals -- are things within the control of the diver. Many boats I've dived from don't assign buddy pairs. Some seem quite satisfied with herd diving, but I am not . . . I don't get in the water without a designated buddy or buddies, and if I have to arrange that myself, I do. We were all taught that in OW, and if people on that boat were jettisoning that teaching, it is not the fault of the dive op. Yes, they CAN be more proactive about requiring designated buddy groups and recording them, but that's like expecting the DM to save you if you get low on gas. The error shouldn't have been made in the first place.

Similarly with doing a major deep dive with inadequate experience. It's like the little cartoon about "diving the back wall" -- People ought to be realistic about their own experience level. We try very hard to impress on our OW divers that their limit is 60 feet, and we tell them WHY. They don't know how to plan their gas, they don't have the bandwidth to manage the dive under the influence of narcosis. If they leave us and go to Belize and try to dive to 130 feet in the Blue Hole, well, everyone has a right to make bad decisions. Yes, the dive ops shouldn't encourage it, but if you have an economic climate where one of the big points of competition is taking people to do a dive they shouldn't do, this will happen.

I haven't been to Belize, but I've been to the Yucatan in Mexico. It is very easy to be smug and judgmental about what SHOULD be provided by a dive operator. But if you have people at the subsistence level, trying to make some kind of living, AND you opt for the cheapest offer, you shouldn't expect United States (or any developed world) standards of performance or safety. And as a certified diver, nobody is responsible for your dive but you.

I do think the thread serves a purpose, because people considering going to Belize should be aware that the dive ops there, especially the cheap ones, may not be poised to pick up the slack for people who aren't prepared to plan and manage their own dives. But the fact that that warning is necessary is a serious reflection on diving culture, where divers expect the operators to shoulder much of their own responsibilities.

 

[peterbj7]

Seriously? You've posted how as a dive shop owner you're concerned with diver safety, have tried and failed to qualify divers only letting them dive the blue hole once qualified by you, and listed the failure of that due to your competition's cut throat business methods of under cutting pricing, yet now the dive operation in question is once again being whitewashed as following all proper dive procedures on yet another reported blue hole dive trip reported by yet another diver who questions the business practices of the dive operation and dive masters regard for dive safety

What's your point, Mike? I haven't said that everything's right and there are no problems. Indeed, I've tried to highlight some of them. But what good does it do in raising false criticisms of a single operator, and saying that they are the Devil incarnate? This operator may well have made mistakes, but not so many or so serious as to justify all the phlegm above. I think TS&M's response is maybe the best I've seen so far. As to the US Govt warning, I'm afraid it comes over as arrogant and self-regarding. I've dived a great deal in various parts of the US and recreational diving standards there are not the highest I've come across.

 

[supergaijin]

I still say that divers and especially divers on vacation resort dives have to be very careful and hyper vigilant and critical of these yahoo cowboy dive ops who do not take this activity seriously. Here and elsewhere there are pages filled with accident reports about dive ops who were needlessly reckless and people died.

Not every diving accident is caused by a cowboy dive op. Not by a long shot. I have no numbers to back this up but my take is that most people get themselves in to trouble because they are personally not up to the task.