Violence in Yucatan

[dive pro]

wow, this is the untimate spurious argument, comparing murders per firearm rates when 1 country allows legal firearm posession, and in the other firearms are owned by criminals.

The fact is the both countries have a problem and for americans to get on their holy high horse to cast judgement on mexicans when our house is so out of whack is shameful to me. When i was in japan in july i had an interesting conversation about violent crime with one of my hosts, in his view both america and mexico are so totally barbaric for our violence that he will not set foot in either, so let's argue some more about who is less barbaric......

Lastly let's not forget who funds and arms the criminal element in mexico, america, our easy access to firearms and druggies gives america dirty hands in this business.

I travel to mexico all the time, even traveling to tj for work 1-2 times a month, just as i would in east la, chicago or detroit i practice situational awareness, know where to travel, know when to travel (2:00am is asking for trouble in any country except japan or norway), leave the bmw at home and drive the focus and so on. In the yucatan as long as you leave your drug problem at home you have nothing to fear from violence, if you don't leave your drug problem at home, well i hope you get what you deserve.

So i'll say it again, he that is without sin should cast the first stone.

thank you so very very much you are so very right jim. Wow finally...
It just seems to me without any disrespect that the people that just insist are the ones that have dove the least and probably have not visited this areas as much, to them i suggest a crime forum, or even a crime in mexico as a country thread and if you feel that way then do not come stay home where you are safe and i recommend you come here, not to be killed but to see for yourselves..... But just please stop confusing people tijuana and crime rates comparing countries etc. Have nothing to do with the yucatan peninsula yes it is outrageous to have it so close but it has nothing to do with tourism. Or maybe if someone has close to 6000 dives all over, taught 500 certifications from open water to divemasters and lived 20 years in the yucatan peninsula, wants to show me some proof it is dangerous to come and dive here then i will consider it, we all can get different numbers statistics etc etc it just depends on how each one wants to view it. I am not diminishing anyones comments or trying to deny there is big time crime in mexico, but it is safe to come dive here.

 

[Clammy]

WOW, this is the untimate spurious argument, comparing murders per firearm rates when 1 country allows legal firearm posession, and in the other firearms are owned by criminals.

The fact is the both countries have a problem and for Americans to get on their holy high horse to cast judgement on Mexicans when our house is so out of whack is shameful to me. When I was in Japan in July I had an interesting conversation about violent crime with one of my hosts, in his view both America and Mexico are so totally barbaric for our violence that he will not set foot in either, so let's argue some more about who is less barbaric......

Lastly let's not forget who funds and arms the criminal element in Mexico, America, our easy access to firearms and druggies gives America dirty hands in this business.

I travel to Mexico all the time, even traveling to TJ for work 1-2 times a month, just as I would in East LA, Chicago or Detroit I practice situational awareness, know where to travel, know when to travel (2:00am is asking for trouble in any country except Japan or Norway), leave the BMW at home and drive the Focus and so on. In the Yucatan as long as you leave your drug problem at home you have nothing to fear from violence, if you don't leave your drug problem at home, well I hope you get what you deserve.

So I'll say it again, he that is without sin should cast the first stone.

FIRST off, you claim my argument is spurious but you took numbers (the amount of murders committed in each country) without context, the total population of each of those countries. You said one was worse than the other simply cause the number was higher when you neglect that actual percentage or number of murders per capita is A THIRD in the U.S.

SECOND, I at LEAST contextually clarified that firearm crime rates were about equal (per capita) in both countries. And in my further comment about amount of guns owned, I again, only said that in a specific reference which I PUT. I didn't arbitrarily throw out numbers without context. Yes, here in the U.S. we legally allow firearms, which means there's a HELLUVA lot of guns floating around. Which, obviously, is a large contribution to our gun crime. BUT, when you are talking about gun crime RATES, which means we are talking RATIOS, per capita of each individual we equal out but per capita by amount of guns around, we definitely don't. I did not say this to say that the U.S. is better than Mexico in gun crime regard but to illustrate that THOSE NUMBERS YOU THREW OUT WITHOUT CONTEXT are worthless in judging who is more barbaric.

THIRD, when it comes to JUDGING who is more barbaric, that has been wholly done by you, not me. YOU are the one who is asking which country is more barbaric, not me.

Preach all you want, you might want to start practicing what you preach yourself before you get on YOUR HOLY HIGH HORSE while quoting lines from the bible.

 

[Clammy]

BTW, take a GOOD LOOK at my avatar. I'm ASIAN, don't start arguing to me about how asians view other countries.

 

[billeelou]

"Enjoy your trip" As I said, if you would read....I was just in Mexico diving on the Sea of Cortez. Go, Don't Go....My life does not depend on your decision.....So Vry you are now director of tourism for the country of Mexico? or just the good will ambassador? "stay the hell out of my country?!?! "nice!! try this website www.florberenguer.com.mx if your Spanish is any good, you might get a better view of what I am saying.....I have dove at least 7 different occasions in the Yucatan, three different trips to Sea of Cortez all the past three years.... BTW I was just at Cancun Dec 2007, I have spent thousands of dollars in the dive areas, plus hundreds more in my one trip to Progresso/ Merida in early 2007....I do not travel by tourist bus or tours, so my acceptance of "risk" may be different than someone else. We take school supplies to the poorer areas when we go down. So, I may feel a bit different...You can Continue to deny it is not a growing problem but the number is now up to 2,900 drug related murders according to that website listed above I see Vry you are leaving sometime next year to move to Canada....I will not suppose it is a safety issue....

 

[Oside Jimc]

THIRD, when it comes to JUDGING who is more barbaric, that has been wholly done by you, not me. YOU are the one who is asking which country is more barbaric, not me..

If you re-read my post you can clearly see that I am stating the BOTH countries have serious problems, and in no way did I intend to state that one was more barbaric than the other. My point is that given our own poor record in regard to murder we have no place judging others. Travel is a personal choice, if you do not like Mexico by all means don't go, but when it comes to something you know nothing about, have some class and say nothing....

 

[Clammy]

If you re-read my post you can clearly see that I am stating the BOTH countries have serious problems, and in no way did I intend to state that one was more barbaric than the other. My point is that given our own poor record in regard to murder we have no place judging others. Travel is a personal choice, if you do not like Mexico by all means don't go, but when it comes to something you know nothing about, have some class and say nothing....

Again, a sling at me. Why don't you have some class and stop slipping in snide remarks. Go back and read everything I wrote in the past few pages. I clearly pointed out flaws in both countries, as you say you IMPLIED but did not out right DO. I also put that we shouldn't vilify ENTIRE populations and countries. I, in NO WAY claimed to know anything about the social or crime make up of any one specific area of mexico, next to the border or not. I simply clarified facts, for example, location of certain cities or certain types of crime rates.

So as you say, I said NOTHING about elevated crime rates in certain and specific tourist areas nor did I remark about how safe it still is or how dangerous it has become etc. That was all other people. I NEVER said I don't want to go or that I don't like Mexico. I stated minor personal concerns and that I'd be there in January.

So, again, follow your own advice before preaching, AND HAVE SOME CLASS and figure out what and who you are talking about and to before posting.

 

[billeelou]

Oh
I should have pointed out, at the Website go to the Article of the day. where it starts out,"Mexico en un caos total. Tan solo en una semana se reportan 167 ejecutados ....Michoacan, el estado de Mexico, Yucatan, Quintana Roo, Veracruz....por mencionar a las entides mas violentas"

 

[dive pro]

"Enjoy your trip" As I said, if you would read....I was just in Mexico diving on the Sea of Cortez. Go, Don't Go....My life does not depend on your decision.....So Vry you are now director of tourism for the country of Mexico? or just the good will ambassador? "stay the hell out of my country?!?! "nice!! try this website www.florberenguer.com.mx if your Spanish is any good, you might get a better view of what I am saying.....I have dove at least 7 different occasions in the Yucatan, three different trips to Sea of Cortez all the past three years.... BTW I was just at Cancun Dec 2007, I have spent thousands of dollars in the dive areas, plus hundreds more in my one trip to Progresso/ Merida in early 2007....I do not travel by tourist bus or tours, so my acceptance of "risk" may be different than someone else. We take school supplies to the poorer areas when we go down. So, I may feel a bit different...You can Continue to deny it is not a growing problem but the number is now up to 2,900 drug related murders according to that website listed above I see Vry you are leaving sometime next year to move to Canada....I will not suppose it is a safety issue....

Hey Bill thanks for Florberenguer site it is objective and realistic and it is shameful how this problem has grown you are so right about that. I am glad you like to visit not only here, thanks for the $ you come and spend here and the support to poorer areas. In fact there was a manifestation of so many many thousands of people last week marching dressed in white for peace and to say NO MORE. But I still say it is safe to come and dive this areas.
Thanks

 

[billeelou]

Miguel,
Cancun/PDC/Tulum is lovely*, with some of the best diving in the world,Mexico is always warm and frendly, I have never had a problem( outside of that small run in in 1972on spring break in Puerto Pinasco). I also have walked around Downtown Houston at 2 am, East St. Louis at midnight, Liberty City,Miami, Fla. at 11 pm., Juarez at 3 am and DF at midnight

Travel always has risks,( I was on the last boat out of Coz before Wilma).Some would say that was foolhardy..Just be aware of what the risks are.By all means, go, enjoy ...

My hope is that Mexico will not become a Narco trafficer state and the people will run the Bastards out

* but really did not care much for Merida/Progresso...IMHO


How's this for a headline: Police say a giant wave swept an American and two others away in southern Baja....Richard Harry Barr 72 from Ft. Smith ark. drowned in Cabo San Lucas on Tuesday.
you see, travel has risks

 

[dive pro]

miguel,
cancun/pdc/tulum is lovely*, with some of the best diving in the world,mexico is always warm and frendly, i have never had a problem( outside of that small run in in 1972on spring break in puerto pinasco). I also have walked around downtown houston at 2 am, east st. Louis at midnight, liberty city,miami, fla. At 11 pm., juarez at 3 am and df at midnight

travel always has risks,( i was on the last boat out of coz before wilma).some would say that was foolhardy..just be aware of what the risks are.by all means, go, enjoy ...

My hope is that mexico will not become a narco trafficer state and the people will run the bastards out

* but really did not care much for merida/progresso...imho


how's this for a headline: police say a giant wave swept an american and two others away in southern baja....richard harry barr 72 from ft. Smith ark. Drowned in cabo san lucas on tuesday.
you see, travel has risks

thanks bill it is really appreciated hope to hear from you when you come so i can buy you a cerveza or a margarita.
Thanks again this really clarifies
pm me for whatever you need when you come back:d