Very strange thread -- would you dive with me?

[Adobo]

In the last week, I've had three different people tell me that they were glad to have finally gotten to dive with me, because previously they were afraid to.

Afraid to? Afraid to dive with ME? Good heavens.

But now I'm beginning to understand why I keep offering to dive with new divers and nobody takes me up on it.

Would YOU dive with me? And if not, why not?

Have you seen your avatar?

 

[mudhole]

In the last week, I've had three different people tell me that they were glad to have finally gotten to dive with me, because previously they were afraid to. Afraid to? Afraid to dive with ME? Good heavens. But now I'm beginning to understand why I keep offering to dive with new divers and nobody takes me up on it.
Would YOU dive with me? And if not, why not?

TSandM, please don't change your avatar. . . I'll never find your wisdom again. You're an ambassador of all experienced divers, to the new rookies. DIR had really bad PR for a few years, telling us there were no good divers, except them. Now with your single handed efforts, they may be tolerable to share a dive with. Share a dive with you, It would be an honor. . . but a dive with your husband, I might teach him to put food on the table, (I'm bad). But if DIR makes you their "Queen" you might drop the "assimilated", some have tried that in the past.

You once gave me a great honor, when you mentioned a "bubbles" article I wrote explaining the excitement you can share when you show them our exciting world. I think you were the only reader. I missed the mark describing diving as "blowing bubbles" as a worthwhile adventure for new divers.

Dragging new divers kicking and screaming into open water diving, is the only thing I haven't done. . . but it is a great feeling when you can open the excitement of discovery to the new diver with enough things hanging off them to feel like a garbage truck. You're the Princess, and you've done so much good... we all thank you.

 

[soamelt]

I think I'd like to get to know you better first.

 

[captain]

I can't speak to that example, but I can talk about my military experience (something that I just realized in another thread is a fairly interesting analogy to what's going on here).

I was in a unit who trained medical personnel ranging of all skill levels from still-in training medical clerks to special operations medical nco's, to medical unit commanders, doctors, nurses, etc..

The dynamic there was different than I see here. We certainly recognized that those spec ops guys were better soldiers than we'd ever hope to be.

They were the epitome of elite and we had the greatest respect for them. But when training was done, they'd be at the after-hours party with us and sitting at our tables and we'd all be talking about everything from our families to our various experiences in the military.

There was no sense from them that they had to belittle our training, or that we had to bow down to them for theirs. They respected the fact that we were all in the same service more than they were concerned about different levels of training. And those of us who weren't at that level respected the heck out of their capabilities, effort and training.

The only time I saw this not be the case was when someone with far less experience and training would take on a posture of being elite within the presence of those who truly where. The results of that were often humorous to those watching, but it basically amounted to polite, but matter-of-fact rebukes without any expression of derision.

Where I did see some derision was when doctors and nurses would presume that their external military training counted for something. That any of us cared that they went to medical school. But that would be akin in diving I suspect to someone thinking that how much money they had to buy gear with made a difference.

I had the honor of meeting a fellow who had earned an CMOH. I recall he spent all of his time asking other people about their careers and had very little interest in talking about his own.

My experience, in a nutshell, was that the best were perfectly ok with the idea that everyone starts somewhere, and that sometimes those with little (and even admittedly inadequate) training where happy where they were; and moreover, it was more than acceptable, it was right to take pride in being in the service without regard to how elite one's training.

One factor in the military that may account for the attitude is in the military is you have to earn not buy your way into the elite units and that process which eliminates so many applicants, 75% on average, may also tend eliminate those with a I am better than you psychological predisposition.

 

[RikTikTavi]

Performance envy - people are afraid.

I would dive with you if you promise to behave. Strike that. I would dive with you.

 

[Buoyant1]

Heck..I was diving with Walter (not as a buddy, but on the same trip) and HE didn't intimidate me!

Sure I'd dive with you! (can I come out and stay at your house too?)

 

[Guy Alcala]

Drills on every dive? No, you have it wrong. She's a DOCTOR, not a DENTIST!:doctor:

Are you suggesting she should assume a slightly irascible persona with a mild southern accent, as well as change her Avatar? I much prefer the Borg Queen to this:



"I'm a doctor, not a bricklayer!"

Guy

 

[Gombessa]

I can't speak to that example, but I can talk about my military experience (something that I just realized in another thread is a fairly interesting analogy to what's going on here).

I was in a unit who trained medical personnel ranging of all skill levels from still-in training medical clerks to special operations medical nco's, to medical unit commanders, doctors, nurses, etc..

The dynamic there was different than I see here. We certainly recognized that those spec ops guys were better soldiers than we'd ever hope to be.

They were the epitome of elite and we had the greatest respect for them. But when training was done, they'd be at the after-hours party with us and sitting at our tables and we'd all be talking about everything from our families to our various experiences in the military.

There was no sense from them that they had to belittle our training, or that we had to bow down to them for theirs. They respected the fact that we were all in the same service more than they were concerned about different levels of training. And those of us who weren't at that level respected the heck out of their capabilities, effort and training.

The only time I saw this not be the case was when someone with far less experience and training would take on a posture of being elite within the presence of those who truly where. The results of that were often humorous to those watching, but it basically amounted to polite, but matter-of-fact rebukes without any expression of derision.

Where I did see some derision was when doctors and nurses would presume that their external military training counted for something. That any of us cared that they went to medical school. But that would be akin in diving I suspect to someone thinking that how much money they had to buy gear with made a difference.

I had the honor of meeting a fellow who had earned an CMOH. I recall he spent all of his time asking other people about their careers and had very little interest in talking about his own.

My experience, in a nutshell, was that the best were perfectly ok with the idea that everyone starts somewhere, and that sometimes those with little (and even admittedly inadequate) training where happy where they were; and moreover, it was more than acceptable, it was right to take pride in being in the service without regard to how elite one's training.

The funny thing is, I read what you wrote above, and the respect, courtesy and camaraderie you describe is exactly my experience with DIR divers. I know you've run into some bad apples out there (I don't recall if it was even ever established that they were in fact real "DIR" divers at all), but isn't there enough common sense and plain evidence even here to show that there's a lot more to the system (and to people in general) than that narrow, unfortunate slice of humanity you had the misfortune of running into?

 

[Slamfire]

Yes, I would dive with you. I wish I'd been here when you came to Whytecliff on Jan 2.

Please don't change your avatar or nickname. I am fairly new to SB (1 yr +) and I was not familiar with the borg/DIR assimilated story. I just thought you were a trekkie. As far as the name, I thought it had something to do with sand as in T-Sand... Then again English is not my first language.

Much more so than avatar or nickname making people cower in your presence, I'd have to cast my vote to the DIR reputation. I am not DIR trained, but my regular buddies are UTD educated. I have to say I've never personally met a DIR diver that reflected the attitude this article distills. If my exposure to DIR were limited to this kind of literature, I would not want to be close to you if there's a body of water nearby.

 

[Kingpatzer]

The funny thing is, I read what you wrote above, and the respect, courtesy and camaraderie you describe is exactly my experience with DIR divers. I know you've run into some bad apples out there (I don't recall if it was even ever established that they were in fact real "DIR" divers at all), but isn't there enough common sense and plain evidence even here to show that there's a lot more to the system (and to people in general) than that narrow, unfortunate slice of humanity you had the misfortune of running into?

Look around here and see how many posts and even entire threads you can find on how under trained and unworthy divers who aren't trained to the particular ideals of various people.

There's a lot of people on this board who have a big axe to grind about how others aren't trained like them or to their personal standards. They aren't interested in seeing themselves and mere recreational divers as being in the same uniform, as it where.

I grabbed onto DIR above as it happens to fit the particular discussion on this thread specifically. However, as it pertains to experienced divers on this board who are into more ' hard core' training, as Lynne is, it really doesn't matter if it's DIR or whatever agency. There's a pervasive attitude here that being trained by recreational agencies (excepting the select few deemed worthy) is simply not good enough.

The point I was making is that soldiers are soldiers first. Service people (regardless of branch) are service people first. Many, many divers on this board aren't interested in being considered the same as every other diver. I'm not saying TSandM is in that category, btw. But given her very strong self-critical streak, it's easy to see why someone might lump her into that group.