Value of the DIR approach

[JeffG]

what requiremnet are you talking about?

I've "heard" from sources that the instructors have been told to look for the patch. I also don't read up on current GUE standards....

The Non-Smoking Requirement for fundies.

They should allow them in and then tell them why its bad and that they will be unable to continue with GUE unless they quit smoking.

That way they could still get the benefit of the fundies class (which I think is a good class for anyone DIR or not) But that is just my opinion.

 

[JeffG]

I'm wondering if you're referring to the DVD, 3 discs IIRC; if so, that would be JJ and GI3, no? If so, that's a bit contradictory...

It sounds like DIR 3 which is a windows media file found on the net.

 

[captain]

Catherine: Your post is very important. This whole "team" concept goes way out the window when the SHTF. Marine officers train for over a year before being deployed-12 hours a day, 6.5 days a week. One concept drilled over and over is not to fall in love with the plan. Yes, it can be fun for some folks to practice their "skills". Rely on yourself. If you are capable you can help others.

Personal initiative, it is one reason the U S military has been so good over the years. When the plan falls apart or is not working or the leader is killed it is usually one sole with initative and ingenuity who singlehandly or as a leader of others takes the battle to to victory, as apposed to other armies that required strick obedience to the plan no matter what course the battle takes.

 

[chickdiver]

You guys are dancing all around it, but still haven't hit on the real value of "team approached" diving. The real value lies not in practicing skills ad nauseum or planning to the -nth degree. The real value lies in a set of expected responses. For example- with cohesive team, one knows that in the event of "x" happening the diver's response will be "y". Further, it simplifies planning, and integrating new divers, as everyone knows the proper gasses to bring, and there aren't going to be any surprises in equipment configuration. As a team of divers dives together more and more often, responses by individual members to events (not necessarily problems, just events) become almost intuitive- the team learns to think and act not as a group of individuals but as a cohesive unit. This in no way means that the individual divers stop thinking, they just learn to utilize each others strengths and weaknesses with a minimum of communication unless necessary. All of this equates to efficiency- which makes problems less stressful and problem free dives a greater pleasure.

These concepts are nothing new. They are applied throughout various industries, etc. GUE just codified them for simplicity.

 

[Cacia]

yes, it is a balance though. The variable of another person may not be as "predictable" as yourself, in some cases.

I cannot imagine diving with someone going through nicotine withdrawal...which if you are wearing the patch, is exactly where you are...in transition. Even hemodynamically, Nicotine is a powerful vasoconstrictor, isn't it? ugh..rebound..different doses, not good. Plus, they are going to be crabby as all get out. That alone is reason enough to steer clear.

 

[mdb]

The real value lies in a set of expected responses. For example- with cohesive team, one knows that in the event of "x" happening the diver's response will be "y".

chickdiver: This sounds all nice however the "expected response" can/will be much different when a real emergency happens. X does not equal Y in the real world. The person who is so cool durning "drills" turns to jello, the person who seemed a bit inept steps up.

 

[Adobo]

...This whole "team" concept goes way out the window when the SHTF. Marine officers train for over a year before being deployed-12 hours a day, 6.5 days a week. One concept drilled over and over is not to fall in love with the plan. Yes, it can be fun for some folks to practice their "skills". Rely on yourself. If you are capable you can help others.

It sounds like you are saying that when SHTF, individuals that make up the team have only themselves to rely on to sort things out. The closest I've ever been to the military is the Discovery channel. It might be creative embelishment on their part but it seems that every program I've seen from the making of marines to the stuff on BUDS, team is the thing that is hammered home over and over again. I guess the Discovery channel is taking liberties when editing these shows.

BTW, let's all at least agree to be open to the idea that the world doesn't behave in a binary fashion (complete self reliance vs. team structured/rigid/preprogrammed/etc.). I think we all know better than that.

Lastly, I am curious as to how to achieve self reliance without having proficiency. I am also unclear on how to get proficient without practice. Your insight would be appreciated.

 

[mdb]

Lastly, I am curious as to how to achieve self reliance without having proficiency. I am also unclear on how to get proficient without practice. Your insight would be appreciated.

Adobo: Of course, as you pointed out, you do need to practice to be proficient. Each skill should be second nature, whatever that skill is, deploying a regulator, or clearing a jammed weapon, applying first aid, etc.

It is nice to have a "team". What really happens, of course, is that some team members respond, others freeze, panic, etc. So, ultimately, you have to rely on yourself. It does not mean that the team is not important.

I dove with one diver over 300 times. We practiced buddy breathing after every dive. One day my "buddy" was OOA @ around 60-80 feet. I donated my primary. I did not have an octo-1971-I never got the reg back. I made a free ascent. I still kept diving with my friend.

 

[JeffG]

It is nice to have a "team". What really happens, of course, is that some team members respond, others freeze, panic, etc. So, ultimately, you have to rely on yourself. It does not mean that the team is not important.

Its nice that you discount the WKPP record with such ease.

 

[dsteding]

chickdiver: This sounds all nice however the "expected response" can/will be much different when a real emergency happens. X does not equal Y in the real world. The person who is so cool durning "drills" turns to jello, the person who seemed a bit inept steps up.

Yes, but, the person that doesn't do drills is more likely to fall apart completely. Let's face it, when one goes "primal" underwater, one's rationality goes out the window. I think one of the points of the DIR approach is to push the threshold of where one goes primal back (and I'd venture to say we all have a panic threshold somewhere, part of placing limits on diving is having the knowledge of where that threshold is). I don't think anyone would debate that the panic threshold can be pushed back through practice of skills. How many times do we hear the "and my training took over" phrase in the context of accidents being averted or successfully dealt with?

This isn't unique to the DIR approach, but it is certainly emphasized more than in other philosophies or training programs. Chickdiver's predictability comment is also a good one, and the team approach, in my experience, also does tend to make diving more enjoyable.

I guess the bottom line would be that practice as a team can narrow the range of responses when the SHTF, and lessen the chance of someone going "primal" and absolutely panicking . . . that to me is a good thing.