Info Value of Masks and other factors to lower Covid-19 Risk while Traveling

[Boarderguy]

That's the problem with science. It keeps on doing new things that need to be incorporated into the definitions. There were no mRNA vaccines except in the lab; now billions of people have gotten them, to the benefit of all of us. By the way, an inoculation is just one way to be vaccinated.

It does not help your case to refer to "Father Fauci" or to refer to "current narratives."
Those are very much red-flag, biased terms.

I am very biased on these and i used those terms to clarify any confusion when you stated that my politics were showing. These opinions have been developed based on my observations over time. Personal freedom is more important than catering to the lowest denomination.

mRNA is not new, but only recently has it been approved through emergency acts. It needs long term data to determine its safety just the same as all other medicines in our country. We do not know what affect these shots will have 10 years from now because it hasn't been studied in control groups. That is my only issue with the shots, long term data.

I'm sure that these "ref-flag" statements are nothing compared to what's been said of the pompous clown that was in office before our current fool.

 

[drrich2]

nor does it have long lasting or permanent affects on 99.999% of those infected.

It's a bit early to make that call. Long COVID is a 'thing,' and it may be years before we learn just how much wear and tear SARS-CoV-2 puts on the body. My wife, despite having both shots of Moderna's vaccine, got COVID-19 in early November. Thankfully a pretty mild case (she also got antibody treatment for it, once diagnosed), other than losing her taste and smell, which took a long time to come back.

Put another way, the present absence of symptoms doesn't mean there's not persistent underlying damage, that may rear its symptomatic head in the future.

Unhealthy individuals that died because covid caused their underlying health problems to multiply on top of the covid damage to their lungs. I get it, the first variants were bad.

A lot of the reason SARS-CoV-2 has gone from being viewed like the plague to like the flu in the U.S. is because of vaccination and naturally acquired immunity (or, like my wife, both). Earlier on there was a sense Omicron might be a bit less dangerous than Delta, but regardless, it's still bad (for the unvaccinated who are past childhood and have no natural immunity).

 

[-JD-]

Seroprevalence of Infection-Induced SARS-CoV-2 Antibodies...

This report describes the increase in infection-induced antibodies against COVID-19 during Omicron predominance.

www.cdc.gov

The latest CDC estimate, based on surveillance studies of medical blood-draws in February 2022, suggests that 57.7% of the population has been infected with SARS/Covid, up from 33.5% in December.

75.2% - 0–11 years​

74.2% - 12–17 years​

63.7% - 18–49 years​

49.8% - 50–64 years​

33.2% - ≥65 years​

Because of the nature of the study, we won't have any real insight into masking/isolation/vaccination correlations with infections, but the near doubling of estimated prior-infected over just a few months drives home the point that Omicron horse is out of the barn already.

 

[Boarderguy]

A lot of the reason SARS-CoV-2 has gone from being viewed like the plague to like the flu in the U.S. is because of vaccination and naturally acquired immunity (or, like my wife, both). Earlier on there was a sense Omicron might be a bit less dangerous than Delta, but regardless, it's still bad (for the unvaccinated who are past childhood and have no natural immunity).

My household is all unvaxxed and in generally good health so omicron was exactly a mild flu/cold. 15 yo daughter had a sore throat, 12 yo son has a 99/100 degree for a few days and the wife was a mix of those 2 and I had a high fever 1 day and then 3 day sore throat. Delta is the the taste/smell thief and was far more serious for those I've spoken to, both vax and unvax, that contracted it.

It's a bit early to make that call. Long COVID is a 'thing,' and it may be years before we learn just how much wear and tear SARS-CoV-2 puts on the body. My wife, despite having both shots of Moderna's vaccine, got COVID-19 in early November. Thankfully a pretty mild case (she also got antibody treatment for it, once diagnosed), other than losing her taste and smell, which took a long time to come back.

Long covid of one of the small % things I was referring to when I said 99%+ have no issues with the current flavor of covid. Long covid in my reading has been associated with the first 4(?) recognized primary variants and has not been tied to omicron cases. I don't have case studies available to back that up atm.

Seroprevalence of Infection-Induced SARS-CoV-2 Antibodies...

This report describes the increase in infection-induced antibodies against COVID-19 during Omicron predominance.

www.cdc.gov

The latest CDC estimate, based on surveillance studies of medical blood-draws in February 2022, suggests that 57.7% of the population has been infected with SARS/Covid, up from 33.5% in December.

75.2% - 0–11 years​

74.2% - 12–17 years​

63.7% - 18–49 years​

49.8% - 50–64 years​

33.2% - ≥65 years​

Because of the nature of the study, we won't have any real insight into masking/isolation/vaccination correlations with infections, but the near doubling of estimated prior-infected over just a few months drives home the point that Omicron horse is out of the barn already.

Omicron often presents as asymptomatic so it can spread far more freely. This is likely the reason behind the increase in cases. With the higher case rate the hospital visits also increased but that is hard to substantially tie to increased cases because there are a higher rate of at home tests that don't get reported AND households that test only 1 and all quarantine.

This sickness needs to be treated like the fly now that is has tuned itself. The same group of people that are susceptible to covid are also thw same group that are/were susceptible to the flu and any other communicable disease out there.

Be safe.

 

[Angelo Farina]

The sickness is very similar to a flu/cold combo from everyone I've spoken to that has had the latest flavor of it. All of my coworkers, my immediate family (wife and 2 kids), coworkers families...

Single cases have very little statistical value.
However in my family, unfortunately, Covid hit quite badly.
My mother in law, who was old but with no significant other health problem, died in a week.
She had flu almost every winter, causing no problem at all. For her, Covid was lethal, flu substantially irrelevant.
My brother, who is younger than me, had just some fever and cough and recovered in a couple of days. Like a cold, you could say.. And instead he got permanent neurological damage. His taste sense changed, he cannot anymore drink coffee or wine, and he does not like anymore many foods. Strangely he can drink beer...
Buth the worst thing is the loss of memory and capabilities of performing math or geometric processing. He is a civil engineer, and this impacted severely on his work...
Just two cases, but definitely much worst than a cold or a flu.
Of consequence I take any reasonable precaution for reducing the risk for me and other members of my family.
Regarding masks I am well aware that they do not provide 100% protection.
But they help.
So I use them carefully, and I ask other people who need to enter an enclosed and badly ventilated space together with me to do the same.
If they are not equipped with an highly protective respirator, I provide it to them.
And if they refuse, either I or them do not enter such a poorly ventilated space.
Covid is going to stay, unfortunately.
So the long term solution is to redesign and improve the ventilation systems of classrooms, working spaces, restaurants, cafeterias, etc.
If people want to be free of the need of wearing highly protective respirators, enclosed spaces must become very different from what we were used to. With much lower occupancy and at least 4 volumes / hour of air replacement.
I am an engineer, and I like an engineering approach towards risk reduction.
I hate limitations of personal freedom, but until proper technical solutions are in place, I accept the suboptimal solution of masking properly myself and my co-workers and my students.
I do not find acceptable that someone refuses to wear an highly protective mask when in close distance with me and with poor or no ventilation.
It is not their freedom to not respect my concern for minimum risk.
Luckily enough I have usually enough authority to force my co-workers and students to wear properly a good mask.
When I do not have such authority, I simply leave the room...

 

[Boarderguy]

Single cases have very little statistical value.
However in my family, unfortunately, Covid hit quite badly.
My mother in law, who was old but with no significant other health problem, died in a week.
She had flu almost every winter, causing no problem at all. For her, Covid was lethal, flu substantially irrelevant.
My brother, who is younger than me, had just some fever and cough and recovered in a couple of days. Like a cold, you could say.. And instead he got permanent neurological damage. His taste sense changed, he cannot anymore drink coffee or wine, and he does not like anymore many foods. Strangely he can drink beer...
Buth the worst thing is the loss of memory and capabilities of performing math or geometric processing. He is a civil engineer, and this impacted severely on his work...
Just two cases, but definitely much worst than a cold or a flu.

I'm sorry you lost your mother in law and your brother had had long term complications. I don't mean to be intrusive, but were these infections early on when covid first swept across Europe or more recently as the virus mutated to be more communicable but less severe?

 

[Angelo Farina]

First off you should look up what trolling is. Just because we have differing opinions doesn't mean that they are posted to enflame nor disparage. Secondly, when the majority of sheep are wearing a disposable or cloth mask with their nose exposed because they can breath that way then the entire reason for them is completely disregarded. When a man has a full beard (myself) then there is no way to properly seal one's exhale so they are again far reduced in effectiveness. The masks don't work as worn by most people because they don't create that perfect seal.

1) How many "vaccinated" (vaccines by definition prevent infection and these shots do not) are walking around as asymptomatic carriers. I can tell you that without regular testing of the population that there is no easy to have accurate data to support saying the infections are lower. The severity may be lessened, but not the infection rate.

No vaccine provides zero risk of being infected. A vaccine is a stimulator of our immunitary system, so that it is prepared to fight a previously-unknown pathogen.
This can result in a quick victory against it in a percentage of cases, but there is always a percentage of vacconated people with a weak immunitary response, so that they get sick, but less severely.
In the case of Omicron, the immunitary response is usually so good that there are no symptoms, albeit there is some reduced virus replication, enough for providing a positive swab test.
So the proof of efficacy of vaccination is given exactly by the large number of people who are entirely asymptomatic, despite having been "infected", or, better, exposed to the virus.

 

[Angelo Farina]

I'm sorry you lost your mother in law and your brother had had long term complications. I don't mean to be intrusive, but were these infections early on when covid first swept across Europe or more recently as the virus mutated to be more communicable but less severe?

Second year, that was roughly one year ago.
During the first year we were entirely locked down.
Unfortunately both my relatives did not manage to get the vaccine before they were infected.
Now here 90% of people are vaccinated, and the remaining ones are treated with very good anti-viral drugs.
Thanks to these measures, the lethality is now similar to a flu.
But without vaccines and anti-viral drugs we could be in the same nightmare as one year ago.

So kudos to medical and pharmacological reasearch, who created these highly effective remedies.
If we now add just a third protective layer, creating good ventilation in enclosed spaces, we can finally get rid of all these freedom-limiting measures: masks, green pass, etc.

 

[tursiops]

So kudos to medical and pharmacological reasearch, who created these highly effective remedies.
If we now just a third protective layer, creating good ventilation in enclosed spaces, we can finally get rid of all these freedom-limiting measures: masks, green pass, etc.

Yes! Which was the point of the OP and the article it linked to. Ventilation in enclosed spaces is more important than masks, which are helpful primarily when the ventilation is poor.

 

[Darnold9999]

My takeaway from the OP is that the viral load in the air that we breath pretty much directly correlates to infection risk. The more contained the environment the greater the risk, the more people in the environment generating the virus the greater the risk.

A mask reduces the amount of virus an infected person spews into the air even if not properly worn.

A properly worn mask reduces the viral load spewed into the air by an infected person even more.

Enclosing a space increases the viral load of that space.

If reducing the amount of virus everyone in society is exposed to is your goal then given the three factors above wearing a mask while infected in an enclosed space with other people seems like a no brainer. As we can't know when we are infected wearing a properly fitted one all the time in enclosed spaces with other people is a simple, inexpensive, solution to reducing (not eliminating) viral load. A more difficult but longer term solution is to properly vent that space so it is no longer an "enclosed space".

If you don't care about reducing the viral load everyone in society is exposed to then no need to wear a mask at all. However I prefer to err on the side of reducing exposure as it will kill fewer people and purchasing and wearing a mask is such an inconsequential restriction to my freedom to do whatever I want wherever I want. I don't wear a mask because I am frightened about getting Covid, likely it would be a mild illness for me. I wear a mask because I am concerned about passing it on to someone else, and I would prefer that you wear yours so you don't pass it on to me or my significantly more vulnerable friends.

I cannot for the life of me understand how wearing a mask has become so political and refusing a simple and easy to implement regime to protect the people around you a badge of "freedom". I look around and see those not wearing masks in enclosed spaces and I see far more "selfish" than "freedom". Imagine if your surgeon, or OR nurses decided that to preserve their right to be free from the tyranny of the medical establishment they would no longer wear masks - the risks are low and most infections are easily treated.

Yes there will be a time where we will need to accept Covid as an endemic disease that we need to live with in our daily lives without taking extraordinary precautions. I will let the professionals, not politicians, tell me when that time has arrived.