Va. Tech shooting

[mdb]

Well, it pains me to say these things....I come from a law enforcement family I suppose you could say.

I guess years of Daryl Gates spoiled me. Maybe I am unrealistic here?

Nope, you are not being unrealistic, the "get on the ground" SWAT types "ducked" once again, just like at Columbine, multiple people died. If only one had moved toward the sound of gunfire, a brave janitor did, perhaps far less would be dead. ACT, MOVE, etc. Once again it was multiple cars, cops with all their gear, and no action until the killing was done.

 

[Cacia]

cops with all their gear

SWAT types

They might have been just good ol country boy ticket writin' troopers....security guards, etc

Did any SWAT people show up?

Most officers have armor and larger caliber rifles in their cars now, don't they

I am pretty sure they were all gathered out there while it was happening, because you could hear the shots being fired. It takes a while to kill that many people with a pistol.

I have not heard one word along these lines on the news...

 

[mdb]

Yep.they showed up but they did not do much. It does take a while to kill 30+ people with a 9mm and a 22. While all this was going on multiple police were on campus.

 

[Cacia]

geeez...we're in deeper **** than I thought then.

People should not be so afraid of one lone ranger every few years, we should worry about how being sheep has finally penetrated our institutions.

...much more broad implications. And it was just revealed to the watching world, gives me chills.

 

[airsix]

Yep.they showed up but they did not do much. It does take a while to kill 30+ people with a 9mm and a 22. While all this was going on multiple police were on campus.

A poster was asking why some feel the need to "take the law into their own hands". Well, it's not taking the "law" into your own hands when you address personal security. Police make an arrest after a crime is committed - they don't make preemptive arrests. Here is an example of a situation where police were crawling all over this place and what good did it do? I'm not putting down law-enforcement at all - I'm just saying that you can't outsource your personal security. This was a best-case-scenario in terms of law-enforcement response-time. There was no waiting for them to arrive - they were already there.

Outsourced personal security is no security at all. You have to take care of yourself. Very few people are more concerned about you than about themselves, so unless your parents, best friend, spouse, or DIR team is on the scene when things go pear-shaped it's pretty much going to be up to you to look out for you.

-Ben M.

 

[airsix]

we should worry about how being sheep has finally penetrated our institutions.

On Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs





.

 

[H2Andy]

Nope, you are not being unrealistic, the "get on the ground" SWAT types "ducked" once again, just like at Columbine, multiple people died. If only one had moved toward the sound of gunfire, a brave janitor did, perhaps far less would be dead. ACT, MOVE, etc. Once again it was multiple cars, cops with all their gear, and no action until the killing was done.

well... someone correct me if i am wrong, but SWAT are trained to isolate (and contain) the violence, and wait for further orders, negotiation teams, etc...

they are not trained to assault a building (which is what movement and fire combined accomplishes) on their own initiative, without a clear structure and plan in place

in other words, i agree with you, but that's just training. SWAT and the Marines train differently

 

[Cacia]

they are not trained to assault a building

...I don't know, my dad repelled up buildings with ropes and stuff. He taught SWAT at the FBI academy.

isolate (and contain) the violence,

and they had assault rifles.

It might be that in more populated areas they become more specialized in their tasks.

Too bad Ron Dawg isn't posting. I assume that some teams are mixed in objectives.

The scenario of a lone shooter with hostages is not a wildcard, its on the menu of the classic things they train for. The plan can't be to just show up, park your car and hide behind something, when you are the ones we bought the big guns for.

I would assume "contain the violence" means shoot the guy before he shoots 30 people.

 

[H2Andy]

here's what i said, c:

they are not trained to assault a building (which is what movement and fire combined accomplishes) on their own initiative, without a clear structure and plan in place

I would assume "contain the violence" means shoot the guy before he shoots 30 people.

no, it usually means contain the shooter to a specific location; block all exits. keep the shooter inside.

 

[H2Andy]

yeah ... the conspiracy theorists are in full swing

of course it has to be a follower of Islam ...

:shakehead

he sent a tape to NBC, which the FBI has ... do you think if he was an Islamist he would make a clearer reference to it than a cryptic tatoo?