Va. Tech shooting

[H2Andy]

the smoking gun has Cho's paper that was talked about all day.
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/0417071vtech1.html

For an English major he was not that good of a writer.

not particulalry subtle or well-written

but lots of anger there, like the world has wronged him

maybe he was abused as a child? ( imean this seriously)

 

[dlndavid]

I think you are right Andy

oh my God, did I just say that?

 

[H2Andy]

...however the refernece to "Ismail Ax" on the killers arm is ....suspicious?
...

there's no connection between him and any Arabic extremists .. tht we know of, of course

my guess is it's a "literary" joke, sort of like "Call me Ishmael" with a twist (i.e. the first words of Moby DIck).

or a reference to the novel Ishmael by E.D.E.N. Southworth about a poor kid growing up outside of what is now Washington DC, just like Cho did. there's a scene where the character named Ishmael chops wood with an ax, basically fevered and full of exicetement.

since the guy was an English major, i think it's more than likely a literary reference, even if not one of the two i've mentioned

 

[ShallowDiverDave]

Here is a report from one of the survivors, talking about how quickly and violently it happened. http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c45_1176890967

wow, absolutely chilling.

 

[agilis]

It appears that most of the tv news commentators fail to understand that there is very little that can be done regarding obviously deranged college students, especially in public institutions. Unless an actual criminal act is committed, or a direct threat (itself a criminal act) made, there is almost nothing to be done except to suggest counseling. In fact, diagnosed mentally ill persons are to a certain extent protected from discriminatory action by the Americans With Diasabilities Act. I once consulted the university counseling center regarding a student who seemed to me to be deeply disturbed and potentially dangerous. I was not the first faculty member to express concerns about this student; the counseling center was quite familiar with the situation. I was told that unless he disrupted class or violated some law or institutional regulation, no actions could be taken. I got the feeling that, as one of their clients, they felt somewhat protective of him. Eventually, he beat up of one of his professors, a meek little old man who taught Economics. The lunatic student was suspended (not expelled), and eventually allowed to return. At some point the demons in his head directed him to enroll elsewhere.

There have been innumerable mass killings in this country worse than the lamentable events in Virginia. I suppose the tv news people decided it was the worst massacre in US history because they couldn't offhand remember any others with a higher body count. I think the Mormons murdered about 120 people back in the 1850s. Of course, Utah was not yet a state. More recently, in 1927, a Michigan school board member annoyed about something or other blew up an elementary school building with a case of dynamite, killing 42 children and three adults. This was before the advent of television, so maybe it does not count.

Maybe CNN and Fox should amend their statement to: "The worst massacre in Virginia in the 21st Century."

The literary reference is doubly interesting in that Melville was using a line from "The Tempest" as the opening for Moby Dick. And I alone am left to tell the tale.

 

[Cacia]

It appears that most of the tv news commentators fail to understand that there is very little that can be done regarding obviously deranged college students, especially in public institutions.

yea, that strikes me as very stupid the way they keep saying "why didn't someone do something?"....like what?

I am a wee bit curious about how a guy like this manages to get accepted...is VPI really that easy to get into? I thought part of the interview was to come across as some sort of normal person.

I mean, I wonder how he wrote a coherent essay on his application?

Also in this thread you could discuss way to help those who survived and probably are now emotional wrecks,

My way of helping people is to tell them to run, fight, hide but don't just sit around waiting for the authorities to save you. What exactly did those officers manage to do, anyway? And why were we better off paying all those salaries? I honestly can't see one thing. If anything, they complicated what people would have naturally done. Law enforcement has gone soft. You get what you ask for. None of the ones I saw jogging around were going to be climbing up the side of the building. This is a very, very serious point, relying on the authorities to protect you.

They sure could have used the LAPD. What a contrast.

 

[DavidPT40]

One psychiatrist commented today saying that Cho was a 'paranoid psychotic', and that from looking at his writings, his mental health had been degrading for the last year and a half.

Cho needed the help of a psychiatrist and a psychologist. All he got was a little bit of counseling and a meager anti-depressant. Just the fact that he would not speak to anyone, nor did he have any meaningful relationships, would be enough to warrant sending him to a psychologist/psychiatrist.

But I agree, its hard to get help for mentally ill people if they don't want it or don't believe they need it.

 

[Cacia]

Cho needed the help of a psychiatrist and a psychologist.

Psychologists can't help paranoid psychotics because they have had a break from reality, that's why they get termed psychotic and not neurotic.
Talk therapy is not effective, is what I was taught.

My own opinion is that psychiatrists can't really help them either, they need to be shot by a sharpshooter law enforcement team promptly, like taking out a rabid dog.

That used to be the position this government took. ...If they no longer train to do that, I won't be eagerly anticipating their arrival.

How am I doing?...that's not political.

 

[mdb]

yea, that strikes me as very stupid the way they keep saying "why didn't someone do something?"....like what?....

My way of helping people is to tell them to run, fight, hide but don't just sit around waiting for the authorities to save you. What exactly did those officers manage to do, anyway? None of the ones I saw jogging around were going to be climbing up the side of the building. This is a very, very serious point, relying on the authorities to protect you.

They sure could have used the LAPD. What a contrast.

Yep, all the swat types seemed to be hiding behind trees and waiting for someone to tell them what to do. As your JB well knows-follow the sound of the guns and you find the gunmen.

 

[Cacia]

Well, it pains me to say these things....I come from a law enforcement family I suppose you could say.

I guess years of Daryl Gates spoiled me. Maybe I am unrealistic here?

I would not blame the administration because this is not their entire gig...they have other responsibilities at the university, people make judgement calls, mistakes. How could that many officers show up and no leadership emerge..? I really am baffled. I even wrote my dad and asked him what he thinks. He trained SWAT teams, agents, policemen in Quantico and knows this area very well. I am interested to see what he says.

It could just be a function of this being the boon-docks. Some of these rural areas just function at a different level. I would have thought being freed up from the LA City Council types would open up the options..

You know, MDB, this felt like the bartender beating all over again, everybody just cautiously watching. If I was law enforcement, and I was outside behind the safety of a tree or a squad car with weapons and listened to that slaughter going down, I would have a hard time looking in the mirror today. I wasn't there and I know this sounds harsh, but it is looking very bad to me at this point.