Using your octo as your primary

[tr3a]

Or forget about the "free parts" and just service as needed. Most regs will go along time with just inspections. It is cheaper to pay for a full service & parts every 3-5 years (but have inspected more often) than to pay the 50.00 to 75.00 year labor in order to get "free parts". Been my experience that Apeks or Aqualung can easily go for 10 years or more with same internal parts (assuming good maint.)

 

[Mndiv]

Regs:
1) Check first how much the LDS will charge you to fix those regs.
2) If they can get the parts.
3) Will they let you buy the parts and they provide labour.
I happened once to be charge 120$ to repair a reg that had FREE parts, sold it and went to another LDS that charges me 60$. See the difference? Be careful.

BCD:
-That looks like a sweet BCD. Good luck

Wetsuit:
-Good call, I can't fit into my wetsuit that I bought in college 4-5 years ago, so yeah. Good Call.

Computer:
-I bought the SubGear XP10, rebrande Uwatec Aladin. Does nitrox and sells at 250$ MSRP. Find a ScubaPro dealer and if he charges more than 250$ tell him he's higher than MSRP. It's on ScubaLab. (Also the connection to PC is Infrared so a 20$ adapter works, not a 150$ cable)
SUBGEAR
60:Second ScubaLab: SubGear XP-10 Computer | Scuba Diving Magazine

Din to Yoke:
I have thought the same thing. I have bought DIN and use the adapter, it's bulky.
I'd say buy the yoke one and keep it like that since you'll be renting tanks with YOKE on it for a year or more
But that's just a preference.

Thanks for the advice, I forgot if I mentioned, the regs I am considering are the EDGE Epic Cold Water regs. From what I understand my local dive shop can service/inspect them, but if they need fixing or overhauling they need to be sent to EDGE directly, the nearest dealer, or say someone like James Lapenta since the shop doesnt have the parts and could screw up the warranty.

Yes, I was (as it seems many newbie divers do) originally looking at jacket style BCD's, and although I haven't tried one yet, I certainly like the unrestricted feeling of back inflate, prompting me to consider the Stealth 2 BCD.

Thanks, yes that is what I thought as well, I know a wetsuit has to fit, but unless I find a good cheap one it just doesnt make sense at my growth rate.

The computer looks good, and I will look into that one a little more. The problem is I would prefer a console integrated, sparing me the cost of a computer and then an SPG separately, but if you upgrade your suggested computer to a 3 gauge console, the price rises dramatically and might go beyond my budget. The Aeris XR-1 is a console integrated basic computer, although its no nitrox, and you cant hook it up to a computer, it still a solid beginner computer and its about $260.00 and thats with the compass module. But thanks for the advice!!

 

[Ally Matangi]

If you're sharing air, your octo will be your primary. I would suggest getting a good reg for both your primary and your octo.

The only reason it's cheaper is because there is a demand for cheap octos, so there's an incentive to cut any corners possible. It probably won't kill you, but when Something Bad just happened, and you or the guy you're sharing air with is breathing like a hoover, the last thing you want is a poorly performing reg.

flots.

Totally agree with Flots.

 

[Seraphimx]

@Seraphimx: In order to keep the free-overhaul-parts-for-life policy in effect, Apeks regs need to be overhauled every 2 years. The in-between years only require an "inspection" which takes a couple of minutes to do. (I do a similar reg "inspection" before every dive.) My LDS often does such "inspections" at no charge. This servicing schedule assumes that the reg is functioning well.

On the other hand, Scubapro regs need to be overhauled annually in order to keep the free-overhaul-parts-for-life policy in effect. This is not just a "checkup" or "inspection."

Essentially, it sounds like with either reg setup, you would be paying about $120 every 2 years for servicing. Or am I missing something?

This may have already occurred to you, but it probably would have made sense to keep your Apeks regs and get them serviced at the second dive shop for $60 every 2 years. Assuming that you wanted to maintain the free-overhaul-parts-for-life policy, that would have cut your reg servicing costs in half.

I hadn't seen your reply Bubbletrubble,

No, has you have seen with the "LDS charges to try on wetsuit" that LDS was one that ripped off customers. Basically, they told me it needed yearly maintenance, and basically cheated me at every turn. I liked AL gear when I dived in Marseille (2 dives), I had the chance of trying the AL titan and I liked it. But the problem I have is that every AL LDS that I went to here 2 so far. They were the Vacation Diver / fleecer LDS. The Apeks XTX 200 sells for 1900$ :shocked2: I bought it at 700$ in the states. They also sell Beuchat regulators at 850$ :shocked2:, MSRP is 350$..... do you see a pattern here? I brought them my Apeks WTX3 wing that had a recall from AL because of some inflator problem. A FREE FIX. The LDS didn't want to honor the recall, told me I had made a fake recall (http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ma...aqualung-apeks-wtx-power-inflator-recall.html), told me the wing was not sold by them (it should be serviced by the original seller?) and told me that he wouldn't repair it free of charge and that he wanted 90$ for the inflator. In my opinion that is an unsafe/unethical practice. My current LDS is a SP reseller and he can't service the AL brands without voiding the warranty. That's why I sold and went with SP.

I was fed up with them, I now drive 20min further to get it serviced, but at least I know it's in good hands. I sold the Apeks setup the SAME price I bought it and bought a SP Mk17/G250v, couldn't be happier.

At first the other LDS thought the Apeks line didn't carry the same free parts warranty than AL and tried to charge me parts. I fought for them to remove the parts from a 300$ish bill. You can clearly see why I will never go the AL/Apeks route, I'd love to but the two LDS with AL gear where shop that have a "fleece the divers" policy. All other AL LDS are at least 45-60min drive from me, in any direction.

That's why I'm telling people to check out the LDS first. Check out what kind of LDS he is, then try to buy local to a good LDS, if it's impossible try to buy on the net.

It's not about Apeks, Beuchat, SP or whatever brand, it's about some retarded LDS trying to rip you off. Scuba is expensive, but not as expensive as they make it.

It's sad but out of the 5-6 LDS I've been to, I can say 2 were good, the rest hired teenagers that didn't know anything about scuba and they were WAY overpriced. What more can I say.

 

[almostasparky]

The dive shop I use in Milwaukee,Wi. sells new equipment at the lowest prices allowed by the mfg. not MSRP.
reply to ckersey@wi.rr.com for more info.

 

[trekdiver]

First, Octo's are sold as the second stage and hose only. There is no first stage. This is the major difference between the costs. Because the Octo is sold without the first stage.

Second, Octo's, especially the cheaper ones are 'unbalanced'. Which means the mechanism is not making any adjustment for the higher ambient pressure at deeper depths. Thus, the deeper a diver goes using an 'unbalanced' second stage, the diver will find it increasingly difficult to breath from the regulator. (first stages, by the way, also come in balanced and unbalanced models)

Unbalanced regulators are typically cheaper than 'balanced', because of the engineering and manufacturing costs. Balanced regulators tend to be more complicated, with more parts, and more internal adjustments required of the service technician to prepare them for efficient use.

Third, Octo's for recreational diving pretty much always come with a longer hose than is found on primary first and second stage pairs. This longer hose provides two benefits, one it is easier to loop it down along your side and then back up to the triangle area under your chin, second and more importantly, the longer hose gives two divers who are sharing the tank through the use of the Octo more room to work with.

If one was going to buy Octo's for normal use (used as the primary), then it would be best to plan on replacing the longer hose with a short one. This will alleviate two issues: one, the longer hose is more likely to get caught up on something underwater when in use, and two, the longer hose definitely creates more drag in the water which then strains the jaw muscles, as they have to bite more tightly to compensate for the increased drag.

So some buying points:

If you are a shallow reef diver, with no intention of going 'deep', (meaning past 60'/18m), then unbalanced regulators will give you adequate performance.

If you are someone who wants to go deep, or you believe there is a possibility that you will gradually go deeper with more experience, then balanced regulators are the better option. Yes, more expensive upfront, but a more prudent investment, compared to buying cheap now, and then having to buy a higher performing balanced regulator later to keep up with your diving (buy a balanced now, rather than an unbalanced now, and a balanced later).

If you're really concerned about pricing, then you could look at buying a balanced first stage, and an unbalanced second stage. That would save some money, and you're getting the high performance you want in the first stage. But usually this is not an easy option, as most manufacturers will not sell this kind of pair. There are only a few selected brands that allow this type of mix and match, and they are more oriented towards the technical divers who are buying gear for specialized requirements. Not something you're going to get in an average dive shop, nor getting the specialized equipment knowledge from the shop employee that would give you the proper guidance on this customized purchase.

Final comment about Octo's, one of the reasons they are typically unbalanced, the cheaper versions anyway, is that unbalanced regs are less likely to freeflow.

Your choice in equipment is not just about price, but about the performance you need to safely conduct the dives you want to do. If you want to do more challenging dives, then you should be looking at higher end gear. That means a bigger investment.

 

[scubajim 1]

This is life support! Don't scimp....get the very best you can afford, maybe put off other purchases to do it.

 

[EMT_diver]

Price is not the only consideration for the most important piece of your gear. Having said that, check and see if your local dive shop is selling any of their rental gear. It's usually well maintained and you can get a deal. I bought a Conshelf 21 with an octo for 75.00 in 1992 when my local shop was upgrading their rental gear and I still use it.

 

[Rhino434]

If you're sharing air, your octo will be your primary. I would suggest getting a good reg for both your primary and your octo.

The only reason it's cheaper is because there is a demand for cheap octos, so there's an incentive to cut any corners possible. It probably won't kill you, but when Something Bad just happened, and you or the guy you're sharing air with is breathing like a hoover, the last thing you want is a poorly performing reg.

flots.

Unless things are drastically different than when I was teaching for PADI, if you are unfortunate enough to have someone come to you out of air, THEY should find and use your octo. An octo is an unbalanced regulator and very often harder to breath off of. In an emergency situtation this is fine, but to rely on your octo as your personal primary is not a good idea. They could come up short in a hard breathing scenario. Save a penny, but lose that dollar! After all, isn't your primary reg your lifeline?

 

[tcbc8222]

I wanted to chime in on this discussion as I recently fought this decision when purchasing my regs. First - diving is an expensive sport and as such there are some things that you are just going to have to pay for if you want to enjoy the sport. Second - Who is your dive buddy? The reason I ask this question is because my wife is mine and as such I wanted an Octo, should she ever be in a situation to need it, to be as good as her primary. I have the Apeks XTX 100 /50 Octo set up for me. She is going through certification now and I will probably buy the same for her too. When I dive with others they can be rest assured that the octo will be capable of giving them reliable service if needed.
You can scrimp on fins, BCD, DC, Lights etc.... but when it comes to the most important part, BREATHING, I didn't want to scrimp.