Used tanks.....

[on_two_wheels]

Got more details. Both are steel 80s. One from 99, the ohter from 2001. The last hydro date was 2002 on both.

 

[matts1w]

Got more details. Both are steel 80s. One from 99, the ohter from 2001. The last hydro date was 2002 on both.

They will both need hydros, but if the price is right and the valves are decent go for it. Just play it smart and see what new steel 80s will cost locally.

Another note: your pic and profile indicates you are young and in the military. You might find that an 80 cuft is a pretty freakin' small cylinder for you. If you were in my shop I would steer you toward steel hp 100s (Not because we make more money. We make almost nothing on tanks.). They are the about same size as the alum 80 you probably used in OW class and hold a bunch more gas. I would bet that if you keep diving a bunch in within a year you will have the 80s for sale so you can buy a set of HP 100s or even 119s or 120s.

A good price on a tank or any scuba gear you soon outgrow is simply not a good deal- new or used. I only say this from experience.....for instance I once purchased an air only/no gauge mode computer and a 32 inch spear gun. Great prices, but TOTAL wastes of money.

 

[Stu S.]

Obviously you are not the one running the compressor.

The explosion at Force e and the kid who lost his hand was no folklore. A few people saving a few bucks on old a-- tanks are not worth anyone getting killed/injured.

Hey Matts, obviously we don't want anybody injured. Having a diving family, nobody is going to get all spankin' new stuff. And, we used the tank after my local dive shop declared it perfect, using all the latest tests. A year later a second shop said "good to go".

Diving around our state, we found some places would fill the old one and some would not. One guy looked over the exterior of the tank, declared it in "good shape" and filled it. Another place said they would fill the "pre-89's" for people, if they were customers on their boat. What does riding a boat have to do with the integrity of a cylinder? One place in South Florida said they were obligated to fill anything that had current hdro and VIP. Some said "no", unless they inspected it themselves. Some said "no" due to store policy.

Well, everybody either said "yes" or "no", but for entirely different reasons. Not all reasons were based upon fact, so I suppose that's folklore.

Well, it got to be kind of monkey biz, so a nice guy in Tennessee is using it now.

Thanks for reading,

Stu.

 

[Stu S.]

Got more details. Both are steel 80s. One from 99, the ohter from 2001. The last hydro date was 2002 on both.

Hey, buddy. Can you get your money back if they fail hydrostatic testing? There are places, such as North Florida, where divers get steel tanks over-pressurized. This obviously gives more air, and puts extra stress on the tank. A tank rated "2400+" can only be pressurized to 2640 psi. Some around here get these filled to 3,500, even though we know it is illegal.

That overfilling reduces the probability of a tank passing the next hydro. If somebody were selling steel cylinders with hydro just due, I might smell something fishy.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

Obviously you are not the one running the compressor.

The explosion at Force e and the kid who lost his hand was no folklore. A few people saving a few bucks on old a-- tanks are not worth anyone getting killed/injured.

At the time of the explosion (early 1998) there were no eddy current protocols in place. Following the explosion it was determined that the quality of visual inpsections varied greatly and that they were in and of themselves inadequate to detect 100% of the sustained load cracks out there. Consequently, in mid 2000 Luxfer issued a policy requiring all luxfer tanks made from 6351-T6 alloy subjected to an eddy current inspection every 2.5 years. In practice, these inspections occurred annually as part of the annual VIP.

Since then, there have been no explosions of properly inspected 6351-T6 tanks related to sustained load cracking. None. Nada. Zip. Zero. This is the case because it takes 6 to 7 years for a sustained load crack to develop from the point where it is detectable by eddy current inspection to the point where a catastrohpic failure could occur. Based on this fact and the lack of any SLC related explosions of properly inspected 6351-T6 tanks, the DOT recently issued regulations requiring and eddy current inspection every 5 years as part of the hydro test/requalification process nd that the tank be stamped to indicate the succesful completion of the test.

So in effect by ignoring the substantial change in test protocols and the total lack of SLC related explosiosn since they were introduced, you are pushing the "oh my God 6351-T6 AL tanks are gonna explode" story years after it ceased to be a concern and in fact became folklore.

The irony here is that some of the biggest proponents of the "it's dangerous to fill properly inspected 6351-T6 tanks" myth are the very same people who will "cave fill" an LP steel tank certified to 2400 psi to 3500 psi - only 500 psi less than the hydrostatic test pressure that is has to hold for only a few seconds every 5 years. This is a practice that is not only clearly unsafe but also clearly illegal - but according to the twisted logic invovled is apparently safer than filling a properly inspected 6351-T6 steel tank.

The cynic in me suggests this continued practice of refusing to fill 6351 Al tanks has a lot more to do with shops either being totally ignorant (and therefore being shops you want to avoid anyway) or with shops wanting to force customers to buy new tanks by obsoleting their old ones.

As an aside, if you do a search you will find a post with a reference to a DOT circular listing the dates that 6351-T6 alloy was discontinued in tanks of various sizes. The 1990 date gets thrown out as theoretically by then no one made them - but this is not totally true as Walter Kidde produced them into 1991 when they went out of business and were acquired by Luxfer. At the other extreme Catalina NEVER used 6351-T6 alloy so a catalina tank is good to go with regard to SLC regardless of age. Luxfer changed to 6351-T6 alloy begining in 1987 starting with some sizes of tanks and moving to others by 1990.

So a luxfer tank made from 1987 to 1990 is suspect and should be eddy current inspected, all Walter Kidde tanks should be inspected and all Catalina tanks are by definition 6061-T6 alloy and do not require the eddy current inspection for SLC purposes.

Practically speaking, with the current eddy current inspection equipment available, there is nothing wrong with inspecting 6061-T6 tanks so inspecting any AL tank would not hurt anything, but it shoud be a small part of the VIP charge for all AL tank customers, rather than a way to price gouge all owners of older AL tanks.

And again, there is no legitimate reason not to fill a properly inspected 6351-T6 tank. The problem from the customer perspective is that shops in a local area seem to get together over lunch or a beer and set 6351 fill policies, along with equally hinky policies such as refusing to honor PSI tank inspections, VIP's done by shops outside the local area, by Fill Express, etc. or requiring those really large, obnoxious and totally meaninlgess nitrox bumper stickers that serve only to make $4 or $5 in profit for the shop requiring you to have them) leaving you stuck as everyone in the area is essentially fixing the policy and prices and is preventing competition.

 

[on_two_wheels]

First, while I appreciate the "young" comment, I certainly don't feel it as I just turned 37.

Second, I would think that what works for me now would only work better later as my breath control improves. Also, with practice less effort will be exerted maintaining buoyancy/position so wouldn't my air consumption decrease there, too?

Lastly, yes....I made sure I could get my money back if there were any problems with testing.

 

[Jimmer]

HP 80 or LP 80? HP80's are TINY tanks, and you might find them quite difficult to get to trim properly depending on your height. I would honestly suggest what matts1w said, and consider looking around for use HP100's. There are probably a lot of them in California, and I think you will like them a lot better. Right nown on air, they will be a benefit because of the added gas, if you go to Nitrox someday, even with an 80, you might not be able to get the full benefit of the Nitrox because of the small size of the tank. Just something to consider.

 

[Garrobo]

Buy a couple Catalina's and your search is over.

 

[matts1w]

DA-

I have read both positions numerous times from many learned individuals concerning the pre 1989 cylinders using scubaboard and other sources. I feel pretty educated about the different makers and materials, and will continue to not fill old cylinders. I do not think there is really any need to rehash it again. To me the risks of a mistken tank do not outweigh the rewards.

I can state that I sleep just fine at night knowing there is not some conspiracy to rid the world of old dive tanks to line my pocket. We make almost nothing on tanks....peior. Maybe companies like Scuba Toys and Leisure Pro do as they move eneough inventory, but we sell them for just about what we pay for them. Heck, I purchased mine from a certain retailer active on this board because he could get them faster then us for the same price as I pay my boss. That is a fact.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

To me the risks of a mistken tank do not outweigh the rewards.

You certainly have a choice to do what ever you want to do, I just object to people dramatizing an unfortunate but 10 year old accident that in light of today's protocols has zero relevence to the essentially zero risk of a catastrophic SLC related failure.

It's possible that a crack could be missed in one mistaken eddy current test, I will grant you that. However two facts remain 1. SLC cracks take a minimum of 6 to 7 years to progress from the point they can first be detected to the point where any type of failure could occur and, 2. an annual eddy current inspection will most likely remain an industry standard just like the industry standard annual VIP.

So in effect, that mistaken tank you fear would have to have a crack that is missed during 6 or 7 consecutive eddy current inspections plus at least one hydro test during that period time before it is likely to fail due to an undiscovered sutained load crack.

Such an event has in fact not occurred anywhere in the country during the 7 years since eddy current testing has been in place while hundreds of thousands if not millions of 6351 alloy scuba, SCBA and medical O2 cylinders have remained in service.

Fill whatever you want, but please stop spreading unjustified fear and panic (ie: ignorance) about the safety of 6351 alloy tanks.