Use your CO analyzers

[ktomlinson]

Whatever it takes to deliver clean air is what they have to do. If the DMs have to test every tank, it takes 30 seconds per tank - I wish they would, and could if the Ops supplied the analyzers, which are quite cheap spread over hundreds of tanks. From your post, it is evident that you don't care. Why do you object to those of us who do care?

The biggest station, Meridiano, can produce clean air and has Anaolox monitors. If not one complains, nothing changes, but they can do better than they did for tanks supplied in this case.

In fact we did get clean tanks the rest of the week, which may or may not have been the case if we hadn't refused them. Mossman, can you prove that no one has died of CO on Coz? I'm being facetious, because of course you can't...but that kind of statement is what you deem clever. To folks of higher intelligence it usually takes something more to be thought of as clever. This is hearsay, but our DM did tell one member of the group that someone had died a few months ago on the island from CO.

 

[swamp diver]

Yes, but doesn't the increased PO2 somehow mitigate the increased CO concentration?
I can't find literature on this :depressed:

Alberto (aka eDiver)

Yes it does while at depth as the increased pressure will allow a greater amount of oxygen to be dissolved in the plasma which will compensate for the loss of oxygen carrying capacity by the red cells. Upon ascent though this plasma source of oxygen is immediately lost but the CO molecules remain bound to the hemoglobin thereby preventing oxygen transport. That is why in many of these CO poisoning incidents the diver is reasonably unimpaired until he starts to ascent. In the Maldives if I recall as the poisoned group ascended there were about three or four divers all unconscious on the surface at the same time yet they completed a 30 minute dive at depth. Many of the other divers had headaches and were not well once on the surface.

Treatment of CO poisoning with hyperbaric oxygen serves two purposes. One is to immediately increase the oxygen content of the plasma in order to protect the brain as it is very sensitive to oxygen deprivation, and the other is to remove the CO molecule off the hemoglobin molecule in the red blood cell. One can see the improvement in CO elimination time with 100 percent oxygen at 1 ATA and 2.5 ATA by the lungs in this diagram.
http://www.coheadquarters.com/coremove1.htm

Have a look at Dr. Fred Bove's book Diving Medicine if you are looking for additional info on the subject.

 

[Mossman]

In fact we did get clean tanks the rest of the week, which may or may not have been the case if we hadn't refused them. Mossman, can you prove that no one has died of CO on Coz? I'm being facetious, because of course you can't...but that kind of statement is what you deem clever. To folks of higher intelligence it usually takes something more to be thought of as clever. This is hearsay, but our DM did tell one member of the group that someone had died a few months ago on the island from CO.

Sigh. I promised to leave this thread alone, but you're obviously trolling for me. I highly doubt you're of higher intelligence.

No, of course you can't prove that no one has died of CO poisoning on the island and thrown into a cenote for disposal. No, of course you can't prove that alien abductions aren't occurring there either. But there are lots of other proven causes of death on the island that are far more worrisome to me. It's like you're scared of ghosts even though no one has proven they exist either. Me, until I see a ghost, I'm not going to lose sleep over it.

Thanks for more hearsay. Add that to Dandy Don's hearsay and you have 1 + 1 = 0. Zero proven deaths from CO poisoning in Cozumel. Come on, you know people are dying like flies out there. Go ahead, make my day, find one of the dead bodies that must have died from CO and have it autopsied. I bet you can find a bunch in the cenotes.

But we'll probably never know. It's all a big cover up, probably at the instigation of the taxi mafia whose idling taxis no doubt contribute to many of the CO deaths annually. Even an upstanding citizen like Dandy Don said he'd likely perpetuate the cover up in a foreign country. Remember Natalie Hollaway? CO poisoning.

Be careful out there. Exposing the CO conspiracy may be more dangerous than diving the unanalyzed tanks.

 

[flots am]

Be careful out there. Exposing the CO conspiracy may be more dangerous than diving the unanalyzed tanks.

Anybody can pump CO. Even Dutch Springs did a bunch of bad tanks a few years ago. They smelled like burning plastic. AFAIK, nobody had an analyzer, but I'd be surprised if they weren't contaminated.

There's no reason to believe that any random tank in Cozumel or anyplace else is safe to breathe unless it's been checked or came from a known-good source.

flots.

 

[Mossman]

Anybody can pump CO. Even Dutch Springs did a bunch of bad tanks a few years ago. They smelled like burning plastic. AFAIK, nobody had an analyzer, but I'd be surprised if they weren't contaminated.

There's no reason to believe that any random tank in Cozumel or anyplace else is safe to breathe unless it's been checked or came from a known-good source.

flots.

I have plenty of reasons to believe: (1) no proven CO fatalities on Cozumel, (2) the DM is breathing his tank from the same air sources and he does it daily, (3) at least a thousand successful dives a day on the island (is that number right? it sounds about right), (4) Meridiano has inline CO monitors.

That's four good reasons, enough for me to believe. I believe in statistics and probability.

And thanks for confirming my sniff test belief as well. You're actually doing the "cause" more harm than good.

 

[DandyDon]

Breathing the same air as the DMs at a site heavily dived without known problems doesn't do it for me. The DM in the Roatan accident also died, and they have a memorial that can be dived as part of their hush campaign.

There's no reason to believe that any random tank in Cozumel or anyplace else is safe to breathe unless it's been checked or came from a known-good source.

flots.

Good sources don't do it for me. Too many failures at Meridiano for example, and too many other variables.

I have nothing to win or lose here. Analox invented their portable CO analyzer, I have one, so I am covered. At first I didn't want to spend more than a bedroom CO alarm costs, but those are worthless for our needs. Then I got the cheapest low range unit I could find, but it was a pain - and the sensor it now out on it. I got over the price and got the good one.

 

[flots am]

And thanks for confirming my sniff test belief as well. You're actually doing the "cause" more harm than good.

I have no cause and don't really care what anybody else does. You can breathe anything you wish.

A tank that smells bad is bad. A tank that doesn't smell bad isn't necessarily good.

flots.

 

[ggunn]

There's no reason to believe that any random tank in Cozumel or anyplace else is safe to breathe unless it's been checked or came from a known-good source.

Granted. There's also no reason to believe that any random tank in Cozumel is not safe to breathe unless it's been checked and proven bad or came from a known-bad source. The thing is, if someone is going to be poisoned by a CO contaminated tank from a fill station on Cozumel, it is at least a couple of magnitudes (100X) more likely that it would happen to a DM than a vacationing diver because the DM's dive there several times nearly every day. Has that happened? Or is it yet another coverup because it would be bad for business? Do the DM's know what tanks are bad and make sure the customers get them?

To me, this doesn't pass the smell test.

 

[ktomlinson]

I'm not sure where this conversation became so polarized. It's not a pro vs anti CO testing type issue. If I dropped my CO tester in the ocean I'm not going to call off my next recreational dive because I can't test my tank. It's because I do believe that the risk is generally low. Still, $350 is cheap to know you're breathing CO free gas.

 

[DandyDon]

I'm not sure where this conversation became so polarized. It's not a pro vs anti CO testing type issue. If I dropped my CO tester in the ocean I'm not going to call off my next recreational dive because I can't test my tank. It's because I do believe that the risk is generally low. Still, $350 is cheap to know you're breathing CO free gas.

Done that. :blush: