Upgrading - Sony A7RV or Alternatives?

[MrTW]

Picking brains....

I have been shooting on a Panasonic Lumix LX10 in a Nauticam housing for the last 7 years shortly after it got released. Got about 300+ dives on my current setup and have been shooting mostly macro during that time.

I am a sure lifelong learner when it comes to UW photography but would consider to be experienced with regards to the overall framework (buoyancy, handling of camera/settings, shooting modes, composition, etc.).

Now, while the LX10 is a fun camera, I feel its time for an upgrade.

I am currently considering the Sony A7RV for the very fast majority of still photography and only some occasional video shooting on very rare circumstances. The plan is to start extending from macro to wide angle shooting over time.

Now, since this is a significant invest and I am not planning on changing setups for a several years after, I would like to pick brains to get feedback on a upgrade within the price range of the Sony A7RV in a Nauticam housing including suitable macro (priority) and WA lenses.

Any thoughts are highly appreciated!

 

[MrTW]

I shoot A7 R3 in Sea and Sea housing. Sony 90 mm macro is the lens u want. Friends also use Ikelite housing at a much cheaper price point. Personally, I don’t see Nauticam as good value. Save money for good strobes. Smaller form factor of other camera bodies becomes nonfactor when you put it in th housing

Nauticam is expensive but have served me very well over the years. Ikelite housings appear really bulky.

 

[MrTW]

Hilljo88 is correct, if your going the sony route you'll want to get the 90mm. I'm using a sony a6600 and i use the 90mm for when I shoot macro and it works well. I could tell a big difference of focus speed between a sony a6400 and the a6600 when using a 90mm, it didn't hunt focus nearly as long.

Since your going to remain with photo as primary and you shoot a lot of macro - I'd continue down the route with A7RV (if the price doesn't scare you away) over the a7cii personally. I prefer having the faster flash sync speed with strobes (which I only get 1/160 with my a6600). You'd be at 1/160 on with the a7cii, the same as my a6600 and the a7c. The A7RV i believe was 1/250......plus the 61mp would give you some crazy cropping capabilities on your macro shots.

As of right now, I plan to upgrade to a full frame at the end of 2024 and will be looking into the A7RV currently (may look at Nikon Z8, but some of my stuff from the a6600 can carry over to the A7RV).

I think the A7CR is pretty close to A7RV in terms of mp if not identical. Would the difference in flash sync between the two make a hugely significant difference on the Sony 90mm (1/160 vs 1/250)?

 

[Nemrod]

I think the A7CR is pretty close to A7RV in terms of mp if not identical. Would the difference in flash sync between the two make a hugely significant difference on the Sony 90mm (1/160 vs 1/250)?

Yes and no. I favor no. That is about 2/3s of a stop roughly. Yes if it were 1/500 or 1/2000!

The camera you are leaving has sync at much higher speeds does it not? Moving from my Canon S90 with virtually unlimited sync speed to my Sony at 1/160th is a real downer. But the dynamic range of the larger and more advanced sensor does help make up as would much more powerful strobes if I could afford them and justify them to she who rules over me.

Being as almost all UW photos are done with strobe, I find the 1/160, 1/250 very constricting, enough so I am considering going back to a compact with ability to sync at high speed like the new Canon compacts always have.

 

[Barmaglot]

Being as almost all UW photos are done with strobe, I find the 1/160, 1/250 very constricting, enough so I am considering going back to a compact with ability to sync at high speed like the new Canon compacts always have.

I don't find the 1/160s to be a huge limitation. Having Retra strobes and UWT trigger, I do have access to HSS, allowing me to shoot at up to 1/4000s, albeit at a reduced effective strobe power, but I hardly ever use it.

If it's that big a deal, consider the new A9 III?

 

[Nemrod]

I don't find the 1/160s to be a huge limitation. Having Retra strobes and UWT trigger, I do have access to HSS, allowing me to shoot at up to 1/4000s, albeit at a reduced effective strobe power, but I hardly ever use it.

If it's that big a deal, consider the new A9 III?

I do find it limiting, especially for WA and CFWA. If I had Z330s I could go up a full two stops over my current strobes and then close down the aperture to control the blue background and sun ball. But I would much rather control the background with shutter and the near exposure with aperture and strobe. The unfortunate physical fact is that all mirrorless and dSLR camera are with a significant handicap that must be worked around. And for all their faults, many compacts do not have this issue, the RX100 and Canons and the Panasonic all can shoot with a much higher X-sync. I hope to live to see the global shutters work their way into affordable cameras.

 

[staggsSevin]

enough so I am considering going back to a compact with ability to sync at high speed like the new Canon compacts always have.

I miss my rx100 series for similar reasons (there's also stuff I don't miss too) I ran the mark 1 until I flooded it back in 2019 on a liveaboard.

I'll eventually upgrade from a6600, maybe this year but the perfect setup for me would probably be the A7CR series with a fast shutter speed....I prefer to stay with a smaller setup for travel reasons. I haven't really dug into the A7CR a ton yet, and probably wont until closer to my fall trip or may wait until after it.

 

[Barmaglot]

The unfortunate physical fact is that all mirrorless and dSLR camera are with a significant handicap that must be worked around. And for all their faults, many compacts do not have this issue, the RX100 and Canons and the Panasonic all can shoot with a much higher X-sync. I hope to live to see the global shutters work their way into affordable cameras.

The silly fast sync speeds are not that useful, as they start cutting into strobe output as much as into ambient light. See this for example: Inon Z330 sync together and pulselength: Underwater Photography Forum: Digital Photography Review - you can see how a Z-330's output at full power starts dropping off rapidly after ~3.5ms, which means that 1/250s is the highest really practical sync speed for it anyway, maybe 1/320s. I believe circular tube strobes take longer for a full dump than straight tube ones, so with my Retras, the 1/160s maximum sync speed is probably quite close to a full dump anyway. It seems to be sufficient for getting sunballs - example at f/22, 1/160s, ISO 100:

 

[WS007]

I have A7R5 in Nauticam housing, not cheap but I am very pleased with it. Perfect ergonomy and long-term value (when you upgrade later to a newer camera model). I am not sure I would prefer a A7cR that has the same sensor, but less buttons/dials and customizability (size/weight and cost will be very similar at the end when you consider the full setup (domes/lenses/flashes etc...)...
For macro the Sony 90mm is a very good lens available. I read in posts that with older camera models (A7R3, A7R4) AF was inconvinient, but with A7R5 (and probably also A7cR/A7cII) it is a pleasure to use. A SMC-1 is required for smaller subjects...

When you come from LX10, you also may consider a system with smaller sensor: MFT, unlike all other systems, has perfect lens choices for both macro and WA, or maybe APS-C...

Wolfgang

 

[Interceptor121]

As first full frame camera in the Sony world to take underwater I would recommend the A7 IV
It is robust it has a decent EVF, good ergonomics and all the features you need and can be found now at reasonable prices
The A7C series are nice (I have an A7C II) but have limits to sync speed and the quality of EVF is low. The R series are an overkill for most users and produce huge files. The A1 (I own 2 of) is amazing but expensive
The A7 IV will be an excellent choice not be too expensive and allow you to take all the photos you want with no limitations

 

[aport68]

I finally took delivery of the Nauticam housing for use with my A7CR. I went this route due to smaller form factor ABOVE water and overall cost difference. The camera difference is $900 and Nauticam housing difference is $750 bringing total cost difference to $1650. I do think the size difference when underwater is immaterial, however. I will mostly be using the 8-15 Canon and 16-35 GM lenses. The weather here in Northern California is rough right now but plan on using soon. Happy to chat on results when possible. Good luck with your decision.