Unidentified sunken cannons found in LIBYA

[Remy B.]

There is one in the Rembrandt Museum in Amsterdam

 

[tilikum]

Which comes back to, does the person that discovered them have any claim?

 

[Wookie]

So, I spoke to my cannon guy, who told me a lot of things, and I got an invitation to see his collection, so there is that.

The anchor dates from the late 1600's, about the beginning of the time of the Barbary pirates. He has some swivel guns that are bronze and iron, and thinks that that one is a heck of a find, because the handle is still attached, but he doesn't hold out much hope for salvage, as the handle is very delicate. He thinks the cannons may be bronze, but he didn't see the lifting eyes set back on the breech like in the pictures I posted. In larger Dutch cannons, those are in the shape of dolphins. In Spanish cannons, they are just handles. I've seen his cannons and mortar from the El Morro Castle at the entrance to Havana, and all of the bronze cannons have a handle on them. Iron cannons are very difficult to preserve.

 

[Wookie]

Which comes back to, does the person that discovered them have any claim?

Any claim? Maybe. A good claim? I'd bet these are in the Libyan 12 mile limit, therefore Libya probably owns them. Of course, in Libya, there are practically modern, so there may not be much interest.

 

[Hitham]

So, I spoke to my cannon guy, who told me a lot of things, and I got an invitation to see his collection, so there is that.

The anchor dates from the late 1600's, about the beginning of the time of the Barbary pirates. He has some swivel guns that are bronze and iron, and thinks that that one is a heck of a find, because the handle is still attached, but he doesn't hold out much hope for salvage, as the handle is very delicate. He thinks the cannons may be bronze, but he didn't see the lifting eyes set back on the breech like in the pictures I posted. In larger Dutch cannons, those are in the shape of dolphins. In Spanish cannons, they are just handles. I've seen his cannons and mortar from the El Morro Castle at the entrance to Havana, and all of the bronze cannons have a handle on them. Iron cannons are very difficult to preserve.

Thanks for the great info.. i have more photos that i can send to your contact..
we're interested in the historical aspect and against salvaging them.. hope they stay in their place if not would give them to archaeology department..

 

[Wookie]

I would never try to talk you out of doing the right thing. With that said, archeology departments typically don't have the money (and often the expertise) to preserve artifacts like this. The State of Florida has warehouses full of priceless artifacts that no one ever sees because they will never be conserved. There just isn't the kind of money to do that. Often, private individuals will get advice, will spend their own money, and will conserve these artifacts on their own, and countless folks will actually get to see them, enjoy them, and study them.

Maybe the best thing is to fully photodocument them, and leave them in situ. Sure, someone else may come along and find them, but as they haven't for 400 or so years, maybe they will have the chance to go another 400 or so years until the next fella sees them.

In any case, it's the find of a lifetime, and I know lots of divers with thousands of dives (I'm one of them) who never found anything half as cool as that. Nice job, and good luck with whatever you decide to do.

 

[Remy B.]

So, I spoke to my cannon guy, who told me a lot of things, and I got an invitation to see his collection, so there is that.

The anchor dates from the late 1600's, about the beginning of the time of the Barbary pirates. He has some swivel guns that are bronze and iron, and thinks that that one is a heck of a find, because the handle is still attached, but he doesn't hold out much hope for salvage, as the handle is very delicate. He thinks the cannons may be bronze, but he didn't see the lifting eyes set back on the breech like in the pictures I posted. In larger Dutch cannons, those are in the shape of dolphins. In Spanish cannons, they are just handles. I've seen his cannons and mortar from the El Morro Castle at the entrance to Havana, and all of the bronze cannons have a handle on them. Iron cannons are very difficult to preserve.

the swivel cannon is bronze the other two iron for what I can see they have a crust of rust on them.

 

[Wookie]

Could be. My guy just bought 2 swivel cannons currently located in Italy. They are part bronze, part iron. He says that is common. Both of the ones he has have broken handles. Did you get a chance to speak to him?

 

[Remy B.]

I would never try to talk you out of doing the right thing. With that said, archeology departments typically don't have the money (and often the expertise) to preserve artifacts like this. The State of Florida has warehouses full of priceless artifacts that no one ever sees because they will never be conserved. There just isn't the kind of money to do that. Often, private individuals will get advice, will spend their own money, and will conserve these artifacts on their own, and countless folks will actually get to see them, enjoy them, and study them.

Maybe the best thing is to fully photodocument them, and leave them in situ. Sure, someone else may come along and find them, but as they haven't for 400 or so years, maybe they will have the chance to go another 400 or so years until the next fella sees them.

In any case, it's the find of a lifetime, and I know lots of divers with thousands of dives (I'm one of them) who never found anything half as cool as that. Nice job, and good luck with whatever you decide to do.

Like Frank mention it is sad that governments don't spend money to revive these pieces, at the same time they don't allow you to do it your self so others can appreciate history, governments leave things to rust away.

It will be better to donate it to a museum and be part of reviving the piece, if the government don't want to do nothing with it.

 

[Remy B.]

Could be. My guy just bought 2 swivel cannons currently located in Italy. They are part bronze, part iron. He says that is common. Both of the ones he has have broken handles. Did you get a chance to speak to him?

No I just search for his business contact.