"Undeserved" DCS hits

[Duke Dive Medicine]

It is as simple as this, if you get bent it is because of one thing, and one thing only!! YOU DID NOT DECOMPRESS LONG ENOUGH FOR THE DIVE YOU MADE!! This is not rocket surgery.

In this case, you are obviously diving beyond your experience, education, knowledge, and capabilities. Of course you don't know why you got bent, or you would have done something to unbend yourself in the water???

If you don't know how to get back to the surface safely, then don't make the dive, Jackass. You can invent new politically correct terms all day long, but the idea that if you get bent it is not your fault, is total BS, baring a medical condition like a PFO.

John,

With a respectful nod to your experience, this position is untenable from a physiologic standpoint. Of course if someone knew he was going to get bent after a dive he'd bump up his decompression while in the water, but that's circular reasoning. The excerpts below are from an article published in Lancet recently (Vann RD, Butler FK, Mitchell SJ, Moon RE. Decompression Illness. The Lancet. 2011 Jan 8;377(9760):153-64.) The article is exhaustively referenced and if you have access to the whole thing, it's a good read.

"Risk of decompression sickness is decreased by reduction of exposure or by elimination of inert gas before (eg, with high oxygen concentrations) or during decompression, but adherence to these procedures does not always prevent the syndrome.
" (italics mine)

Every decompression algorithm has risks, and those risks go up with an increase in depth and bottom time. Every scientifically verified decompression table has a built-in acceptable risk. Another excerpt from the same article:

"Risks of decompression sickness that are thought to be acceptable are a matter of subjective judgment. Acceptable risks specified for commercial diving include 0·1% for mild cases and 0·025% for serious cases, whereas for US Navy diving, acceptable risk is 2% for mild cases and 0·1% for serious cases."

The probabilistic modeling abstract by Hobbs and Gault that I mentioned earlier:
Rubicon Research Repository: Item 123456789/8233

I'm sure that your personal diving practices are conservative enough that your DCS risk is extremely low, but once again, no decompression table is without risk. That has been scientifically demonstrated enough that I'd take up an entire page here citing references.

Even if a diver did everything wrong and got bent, he/she still needs to be treated in a chamber, and the continued stigma of DCS as a "screwup" is a barrier to treatment that I hear about all too often. Your high profile affords you a unique opportunity to influence the practices and behavior of divers. I urge you to reconsider your position.

Best regards,
Eric

 

[The Chairman]

I should have said, "the guy who is overweight and out of shape who gets bent is always like 'i have no idea how this could have happened'"

It's not that everyone who gets bent is overweight.

By your logic, Howie, I should be bent on every dive. I have done a number of aggressive dives, but have yet to encounter DCS.

 

[The Chairman]

I don't think it's debatable -- if you got symptomatic DCS, you did not do the decompression required for the dive.

It's the proverbial "Catch 22" where you don't know the proper fudge factor for the dive! If you get bent, you simply deserve it according to some. Too bad the scientists don't agree with this.

 

[ucfdiver]

By your logic, Howie, I should be bent on every dive. I have done a number of aggressive dives, but have yet to encounter DCS.

Yes, but would you agree you're at higher risk due to that?

 

[Rhone Man]

The other physiological X-fact that I have often heard referred to but never heard properly explained is why experienced deep divers seem less susceptible to getting bent on the same profile as less experienced divers. Like the body can get used to off-gassing more efficiently.

 

[LiteHedded]

The other physiological X-fact that I have often heard referred to but never heard properly explained is why experienced deep divers seem less susceptible to getting bent on the same profile as less experienced divers. Like the body can get used to off-gassing more efficiently.

I've never heard that one. and I know lots of experienced deep divers that have been bent

 

[Chatterton]

Does any algorithm take into consideration my physical fitness, or lack of it? How about my weight, or even my cardio pulmonary efficiency? How about my age? Can I go to the appropriate table for only getting 3 hours of sleep the night before the dive? Or the table for having been out drinking tequila the night before, and then having only 3 hours of sleep, and then not feeling all that good?

How about if I got cold on the dive, or better yet if I got cold on the hang but not on the bottom? What if I was cold on the bottom, but hot on the hang? What if my drysuit leaks, is there a special algorithm multiplier to cover that?

How about if I didn't have breakfast, or forgot to bring water? Or how about if I was seasick, but didn't puke? Then again, what if I did puke? It there a puke button on my dive computer, because I have not found it yet?

What if I got lost, and had to shoot a bag, is that in the algorithms? What if I got lost in the wreck, and scared the crap our of myself, can I get the specific "scared myself" table for that?

What if i was working hard swimming against the current, but only on the bottom? What if my regulator was not working as good as it usually does? Is there a special table for more WOB than usual?

What if I used more gas than usual, and I am not sure why? What if I have a headache, is that included in the algorithms? What if the diesel fumes were making me sick to my stomach?

How about if I do get bent? Do I get the same treatment table as the last guy who got bent? Do I really need to see a doctor, after all am I really any different than every other diver? Why have my blood pressure taken, it should be 120/80? Can't the health care professionals just do what they did for the other guy, and I will be fine.

There is not one treatment table, one treatment, simply because one size does not fit all. When it comes to deeper dives, more aggressive dives, decompression dives, dives close to the NDL, dives in cold water, or any extreme dive.... one table, or one algorithm does not fit all.

All this information needs to be interpreted by the diver, in the water. I apologize, but what I am suggesting is that the diver has to know what is going on, and make decisions relating to his/her safety, on the fly. There is no autopilot.

To tell divers they have had unearned, undeserved or unexplained hits, is not about science, it is about responsibility. Removing the responsibility from the diver, may make some Jackass crybaby feel better about himself, but it completely undermines diver safety.

If you got bent, you did not do enough hang time.

If you claim to be a Jackass, who am I to disagree with you?


Cheers

JC

 

[ianr33]

The other physiological X-fact that I have often heard referred to but never heard properly explained is why experienced deep divers seem less susceptible to getting bent on the same profile as less experienced divers. Like the body can get used to off-gassing more efficiently.

What do we mean by deep here?

No idea if this is true or not,but if so it could be explained by experience = good technique.

Exertion at depth seems to be a real bad idea,maybe experienced deep divers are careful to avoid it?

Howard Hall got bent making the Coral Reef Adventure? movie. Put it down to swimming an IMAX camera against a current at 300 feet.

 

[ucfdiver]

Does any algorithm take into consideration my physical fitness, or lack of it? How about my weight, or even my cardio pulmonary efficiency? How about my age? Can I go to the appropriate table for only getting 3 hours of sleep the night before the dive? Or the table for having been out drinking tequila the night before, and then having only 3 hours of sleep, and then not feeling all that good?

How about if I got cold on the dive, or better yet if I got cold on the hang but not on the bottom? What if I was cold on the bottom, but hot on the hang? What if my drysuit leaks, is there a special algorithm multiplier to cover that?

How about if I didn't have breakfast, or forgot to bring water? Or how about if I was seasick, but didn't puke? Then again, what if I did puke? It there a puke button on my dive computer, because I have not found it yet?

What if I got lost, and had to shoot a bag, is that in the algorithms? What if I got lost in the wreck, and scared the crap our of myself, can I get the specific "scared myself" table for that?

What if i was working hard swimming against the current, but only on the bottom? What if my regulator was not working as good as it usually does? Is there a special table for more WOB than usual?

What if I used more gas than usual, and I am not sure why? What if I have a headache, is that included in the algorithms? What if the diesel fumes were making me sick to my stomach?

How about if I do get bent? Do I get the same treatment table as the last guy who got bent? Do I really need to see a doctor, after all am I really any different than every other diver? Why have my blood pressure taken, it should be 120/80? Can't the health care professionals just do what they did for the other guy, and I will be fine.

There is not one treatment table, one treatment, simply because one size does not fit all. When it comes to deeper dives, more aggressive dives, decompression dives, dives close to the NDL, dives in cold water, or any extreme dive.... one table, or one algorithm does not fit all.

All this information needs to be interpreted by the diver, in the water. I apologize, but what I am suggesting is that the diver has to know what is going on, and make decisions relating to his/her safety, on the fly. There is no autopilot.

To tell divers they have had unearned, undeserved or unexplained hits, is not about science, it is about responsibility. Removing the responsibility from the diver, may make some Jackass crybaby feel better about himself, but it completely undermines diver safety.

If you got bent, you did not do enough hang time.

If you claim to be a Jackass, who am I to disagree with you?


Cheers

JC

Care to share your amazing secret for avoiding DCS?

 

[LiteHedded]

Care to share your amazing secret for avoiding DCS?

seems to boil down to -> do more deco

it's ****ing brilliant