Underwater metal detecting dead in Georgia, Florida, and Alabama?

[scotthowes]

Whats the deal in New York? Say one might know where a cannon might be in a lake or a boat in on the U.S side of a island in a river .Is it legal to take an old bottle or a cannon ball?

 

[soilure]

Sooooo, you would rather have something continue rotting and decaying until nothing is left instead of someone finding it who might make a profit from the venture?

Yeah, well, there's usually not much left after the treasure hunters have blasted it to pieces with their mailboxes either, is there? Yes, I would rather have a shipwreck remain undiscovered and untouched on the bottom versus being found and selfishly destroyed by a treasure hunter looking to get rich (and sadly, they rarely do). The fact is, shipwrecks deteriorate over a very long time, often several centuries, when left on their own, but the act of salvaging greatly speeds up this process, causing the shipwreck to deteriorate in decades instead of centuries.

 

[fire_diver]

Tell me what there is to "learn" from these sunken ships? What new information that we didn;t know before? That there were boats at that time? That people sailed them? That they carried cargo? Everything of importantance can be learned from the naval records. In fact, that's how the treasure hunters most often find thier ships. They know exactly what to look for.

So tell me... what new, unknown, information is there to be learned?

 

[Zodiacdiverdave]

Yeah, well, there's usually not much left after the treasure hunters have blasted it to pieces with their mailboxes either, is there? Yes, I would rather have a shipwreck remain undiscovered and untouched on the bottom versus being found and selfishly destroyed by a treasure hunter looking to get rich (and sadly, they rarely do). The fact is, shipwrecks deteriorate over a very long time, often several centuries, when left on their own, but the act of salvaging greatly speeds up this process, causing the shipwreck to deteriorate in decades instead of centuries.

Like I said you are entited to your opinion and you are waisting your time to try and force it on me and alot of other people that visit this forum. If you want to leave a gold bar on the bottom then you go right ahead.
It sounds like you would like to see all forms of treasure hunting banished or is it only underwater hunting that you care about?
ZDD

 

[soilure]

So tell me... what new, unknown, information is there to be learned?

Ironically, we know more about Classical Greek ship construction (through years of underwater archaeology conducted in the Mediterranean) than we do about the ships from the age of discovery. Why? You assume that there are these fabulous naval records out there to tell us everything we want to know about theses ships when, in fact, there are very few actual ship plans to refer to. Shipwrights passed their knowledge on from generation to generation. It was all in their heads and they trained each succeeding generation through apprenticeship, and very little documentation survives to this day to tell us how these ships were constructed. We have to rely on paintings and such to give us a limited understanding of ship construction during this period. Did you know that in four voyages Christopher Columbus lost nine ships, and we have not been able to positively locate and identify a single one of them? It's not for lack of trying (trust me that's the holy grail of underwater archaeology), it's because the naval records don't exist to confirm the location and construction of his ships.

And yes, ZDD, I get a little disgusted when pot hunters dig up a Native American grave and throw the bones aside in favor of a piece of pottery. How would you like if someone came along and dug up your friends and relatives, throwing their bones aside, just to pilfer their jewelry? I don't want to see treasure hunting banished, I just want to see it done in a more conscientious manner. More often than not, when a salvage firm has an archaeologist on staff to comply with permit requirements they are not allowed to do their jobs because they get in the way of recovering the treasure, and that is not right. Allow the proper documentation to be done and try to be as unobtrusive to the wreck as possible so that others may enjoy it and learn from it, too. With that being said, I do believe that the mailbox should be banned from use, though.

Oh, and those of you who think that treasure hunters are the ones who find all of the great shipwrecks you need to look at this:
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...ain-morgan-recovered-in-panama-117035413.html

 

[Zodiacdiverdave]

Ironically, we know more about Classical Greek ship construction (through years of underwater archaeology conducted in the Mediterranean) than we do about the ships from the age of discovery. Why? You assume that there are these fabulous naval records out there to tell us everything we want to know about theses ships when, in fact, there are very few actual ship plans to refer to. Shipwrights passed their knowledge on from generation to generation. It was all in their heads and they trained each succeeding generation through apprenticeship, and very little documentation survives to this day to tell us how these ships were constructed. We have to rely on paintings and such to give us a limited understanding of ship construction during this period. Did you know that in four voyages Christopher Columbus lost nine ships, and we have not been able to positively locate and identify a single one of them? It's not for lack of trying (trust me that's the holy grail of underwater archaeology), it's because the naval records don't exist to confirm the location and construction of his ships.

And yes, ZDD, I get a little disgusted when pot hunters dig up a Native American grave and throw the bones aside in favor of a piece of pottery. How would you like if someone came along and dug up your friends and relatives, throwing their bones aside, just to pilfer their jewelry? I don't want to see treasure hunting banished, I just want to see it done in a more conscientious manner. More often than not, when a salvage firm has an archaeologist on staff to comply with permit requirements they are not allowed to do their jobs because they get in the way of recovering the treasure, and that is not right. Allow the proper documentation to be done and try to be as unobtrusive to the wreck as possible so that others may enjoy it and learn from it, too. With that being said, I do believe that the mailbox should be banned from use, though.

Oh, and those of you who think that treasure hunters are the ones who find all of the great shipwrecks you need to look at this:
Cannons From the Lost Ships of Famed Privateer Captain Morgan Recovered in... -- PANAMA CITY, Feb. 27, 2011 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ --

I don't quite buy this that there is little knowledge of these ships. I have two books "The Last Of The Windjammers" that have detailed plans of many tall ships from the 1800s, the replicals of the Amistad and Bounty where built using the original drawings. I am sure that Loydes of London also have a vast library of ships drawings.
As for digging up graves, archaeologists not only do this all the time but think that they have the right to do it and then they drag the bones around and put them on display like some freak show.
Bottom line is that the archaeologists and bureaucrats don't want to work with the divers they just want them to all go away, so why should the divers work with them.
What I get out of the water I will never turn over, I have seen the results of that first hand and it wasn't good for the divers.
ZDD

 

[blacksambellamy]

Gotta love it the treasure hunters are at work again....they can never be stopped

The archaeologists had not intended to bring the cannons to the surface, but treasure hunters have apparently been working at the site. "There is evidence of explosions, heavy gouging and digging and massive scooped-out areas," Delgado said. "The reef has really been hit hard," forcing their hand.
Captain Morgans cannons






.

 

[soilure]

I don't quite buy this that there is little knowledge of these ships. I have two books "The Last Of The Windjammers" that have detailed plans of many tall ships from the 1800s, the replicals of the Amistad and Bounty where built using the original drawings. I am sure that Loydes of London also have a vast library of ships drawings.
As for digging up graves, archaeologists not only do this all the time but think that they have the right to do it and then they drag the bones around and put them on display like some freak show.
Bottom line is that the archaeologists and bureaucrats don't want to work with the divers they just want them to all go away, so why should the divers work with them.
What I get out of the water I will never turn over, I have seen the results of that first hand and it wasn't good for the divers.
ZDD

Yes, you are absolutely correct about the ship plans from the 1800s because that’s when shipwrights started routinely using them. I’m sure you can find great plans on the SS Republic or the SS Central America, but what you won’t find are detailed plans on the Atocha or any of Columbus’ ships. The ships that I am referring to are the one constructed from the 1400s up until the 1800s, and most of these ships are the ones typically sought after by the treasure hunters. Yes, archaeologists frequently used to dig up Native American grave sites. It’s a regrettable part of our history, but I don’t know if you’ve heard of a little law called the Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Act or not. It pretty much put the kibosh on that practice (by archaeologists, anyway). Nowadays there has to be a really good reason for archaeologists to disturb an unmarked grave, e.g. it’s about to be destroyed by a construction project, and it usually results in reburial at the behest of any tribe that wishes to claim the remains. It’s too bad that you feel this way about archaeology, but it’s treasure hunters like the ones Blacksambellamy proudly refers to who create dysfunction between archaeologists and treasure hunters. As professional archaeologists we police ourselves to cast out any unethical members of our group, perhaps treasure hunters should do the same. Too often treasure hunters work outside of the law, and archaeologists have to spend too much time trying to prevent or undo the damage. That is why archaeologists don't like dealing with treasure hunters in general.

 

[blacksambellamy]

Most Treasure hunters might not have a degree in archeology but that doesn't mean they don't have good intentions. Treasure Hunters are being pushed to work in secret because the laws are stacked against them .
Its in the best interest of the archeologists to work with treasure hunters and not to continue to punish them. In this economy you need us...With little money being allocated for digs/projects and law enforcement and park police are being laid off by the thousands, many sites will be left vulnerable and unprotected..We are your eyes and ears and most of the time a Treasure hunter will gladly work for free.

 

[tridacna]

No im not saying reefs are the only thing thats killing our world.But were losing them.The goverment is just making rules to satify themselves.It like everything else in this world that starts somewhere in life with a idea. Like you cant ware a hat in the cathoilic church but then you have the jewish people ware a hat and the arabs wear a turban. Thats not what should be important. Its the fact that we should work together.You cant have people just ripping up everything thats underwater. Now the goverment should set rules like they do with everything else that makes them happy. Like they do with everything else they do.But do it right when it comes to making rules.Put some thought into it. We could fish for free years ago. But now you have to pay a fee.The goverment has allways stroked us in more ways than one.They take our money ,then set fees on top of that. How much of my pay check do i get? People in other areas,doing other things are complaining also. The goverment messed up alot of things. They put their pants on the same way as everyone else.Look at the mess were in now this world. But yet you see big pay raises in the goverment. Their rasies are more than i make in a year.When it comes to money,which makes their world go round. If they can put some in their pocket,they will.All this bull has to stop. I feel bad for our kids furture. Just look at the last 100 years and how far we have come as far as global warming. I bet you our kids are not going to be around much longer after another 100 years.Everyone is fighting and unhappy over our goverments rule. We should be able to do this or we should be able to do that.What are the things we should be able to do. What should big companys be able to do?Theirs so many things out their that people want to do.If we let people just do what they want[which most do anyway] things would be really messed up. So we do need rules. But stick to these rules and stop greasing our goverments pockets.Not everything is fair,when we want to do someting. But why cant things be worked out.I use to dive for shellfish in my town. I did this for 5 years. I was making over 120 dollars an hour. Then the town made a by law because of safety with boaters. Yet you can dive for someones watch[Which isnt the same]. After 5 years this was my livily hood. It wasnt the safety issue but that people were jellious and that i was taking all the shellfish. Yet i wasnt digging up or distroying the bottom. In fact i was cleaning it up from mornings,and lost crap. Now the town could have just said no diving in the channel,or durning these months no diving. We could have worked together for something that could have made us both happy. But no, they want it their way or no way at all. Well just look at their way. Look at the way they handle money. The more they get,the worst things are.We do need some kind of rules,and maybe a fee so we can look into these areas were going into. Then we can make good decitions and go about doing this the right way.We have open the goverments eyes about treasure hunting. They want it left their so in time they can get it with their own set of rules.They will give grants to people and say in the grant that any moneys found goes to them or the state.But your right. We cant do anything anymore. The goverment messes up things that were interested in. They tax it to death. You fish. you need to pay a fee. Then taxes on everything else you buy to go fishing with. They take all our money so we cant do our hobbies. After we do find something to do, we cant do it because we dont have a job or cant find a job. Then theirs nothing we can do for a hobbie anymore, with out rules and paying more money. Were getting brain washed. What ever happen to the kid that played with the stick in the back yard who dug a hole. Thats gone! Now were brain washed and have computers,rules and think were so smart.Were so smart ,that we cant get along and do something right.I sit home and say to the wife. What do you want to do tonight. She will say theirs nothing to do. Then we find something to do like metal detecting. And because people are fighting over treasure,thats now messed up things for the little guy on the beach up to his knees in the water.Why cant we just think about this,make rules that would work for everyone. Instead of not thinking about this for awhile. They just say no treasure hunting. Do a little research on this. Isnt that why we give people grant money for? So they can study all kinds of areas and tell us the right way to go about this.If the goverment cant run their own kitchen,then stay out of ours. If they did everything righIf they make rules,how will the goverment get around their own rules. Then i wouldnt be so mad. But their are running around with their gun 1/2cocked all the time. Nobodys happy with what they do. Their not a honest crook amoung them!!!! All they have to do is word things differently,and then they can get away with whatever they are doing. What a mess our goverment is doing with our lives. But why worry. Their pockets are full. We find out what one goverment guy is doing to fill his pockets up when his buddy gets jellious because he isnt getting his cut and turns him in.We all can go on and on about this. Theirs so much thats wrong here. But do you think we can do anything about it. No Not unless we can get enought people together,which will never happen.We need someone who is very smart with words and can get people to ralley for change or a over hall. They just caught a guy who was thje head of hiring people in our probation departments in our courts. He only hired family who hired their family and so on. You wouldnt believe how many people got hired that were friends and family. Thousands !! Thats what were up against. That and money.God bless america. If god were blessing america. It wouldnt be like this.It would be fair.Am i done yet. Hell no. But good luck

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