Ultima Dry Glove System question

[Zef]

Maybe this has been discussed already, but it's a looong thread
Has anyone tried mounting a pair of gloves directly on the suit end of the system, where you would normally mount the wrist seals?
Not that I'm afraid my rings are gonna come off during a dive, but doing the above would eliminate a possible (although very very unlikely) failure point.

I suppose it could work but just sitting here thinking about it I believe the grove on the cuff side ring to be kinda shallow which may prevent the glove from staying put over time.

The 4th Element Ellipse system is very similar to the Ultima DGS with 2 prominent differences:
1. It keeps the wrist cuffs oval.
2. The sealing o-ring is on the cuff ring side instead of the glove ring side....

...this means the grove on the Ellipse system cuff ring is deeper making this system more suitable for what you are suggesting.

-Z

 

[Storker]

2. The sealing o-ring is on the cuff ring side instead of the glove ring side.

I don't see this as an inherent advantage.

Having the sealing O-ring on the cuff side is a vulnerability rather than an advantage if you treat your suit as I treat mine. I prefer my suit to be as robust as I can get it and prefer the vulnerable stuff to be located on the peripherals.

 

[Degenerate]

I see a major difference between wearing liners and gloves topside, and wearing the same underwater where I can get just enough squeeze to stick my gloves to my fingers.

Have you ever tried to tuck a neck seal while wearing liners or gloves? I have. I prefer not to. Some things, like tucking a neck seal properly, requires quite a bit more sensitivity than just opening or closing a boltsnap. Clipping a boltsnap is not a problem even when wearing drygloves underwater. And shooting a dSMB is just as difficult in drygloves as it is in wetgloves.

I prefer doing things the easy way. YMMV.

I have tucked my neck seal with gloves, did not have a problem at all, the silicone seal is very cooperative
Left my 720s attached all throughout my recent fundies class and I didn't really see any negative points about it, which is why I asked the question.
I would argue I think it's a lot easier to do things like shooting an smb with my drygloves as they are very thin, and the pressure at depth will squeeze them very firmly in place.
Whereas with a pair of wetgloves I have a layer of neoprene robbing me of some of my dexterity/feel.
A liner will do a little bit of the same of course, but the liners I use with my 720s are still much thinner and feels much better than a pair of wetgloves, even 3mm ones (which are still nowhere near enough when you reach 5 degrees temps).

Cheers for the input, I'll keep using the Ultima system for a while until I get bold enough to try it any other way.
If it aint broken dont fix it and all that

 

[Zef]

I don't see this as an inherent advantage.

Having the sealing O-ring on the cuff side is a vulnerability rather than an advantage if you treat your suit as I treat mine. I prefer my suit to be as robust as I can get it and prefer the vulnerable stuff to be located on the peripherals.

I did not state it was an advantage, I stated it was a difference.

I am working on getting my hands on a set of the Ellipse system so I can do an evaluation and write a review, I am hoping that I will have them in the next couple of weeks.

Per the information on the Ellipse system, When not diving with drygloves attached, Fourth Element expects users to remove the o-ring with the tool they include in the package, and replace it with a silicone band to protect the groove. I see this as burdensome for the user...but to be honest, if it is warm enough that I am not using drygloves, it is most likely warm enough that would probably be using my semi-dry or wetsuit so the whole issue of the o-ring may be a non-sequitur....this is definitely any area that I intend to check out when I have the system in-hand.

-Z

 

[taimen]

The 4th Element Ellipse system is very similar to the Ultima DGS with 2 prominent differences:
1. It keeps the wrist cuffs oval.
2. The sealing o-ring is on the cuff ring side instead of the glove ring side....

...this means the grove on the Ellipse system cuff ring is deeper making this system more suitable for what you are suggesting.

As far as I understand what @Degenerate is suggesting, he would use the sitech oval ring used to attach (silicone) seals to suit for attaching gloves instead of seals.
This is a proven way to dive, with advantages in certain environments.
ISE founder talks about this in this video (but the video quality is poor so you can't really see what he is doing)

Left my 720s attached all throughout my recent fundies class and I didn't really see any negative points about it, which is why I asked the question.

My fundies instructor dove with permanently attached drygloves....

 

[Zef]

As far as I understand what @Degenerate is suggesting, he would use the sitech oval ring used to attach (silicone) seals to suit for attaching gloves instead of seals.
This is a proven way to dive, with advantages in certain environments.
ISE founder talks about this in this video (but the video quality is poor so you can't really see what he is doing)



My fundies instructor dove with permanently attached drygloves....

What the ISE guy is showing is attaching a latex glove directly to the suit using the hard oval ring of the Si-Tech QCS oval cuff system...

...that could work but I think it limits one to the type of glove that can be used to set things up this way. I am not sure it will work with the PVC or nitrile type SHOWA gloves but it would be interesting to know if anyone has tried it.

Using an o-ring to hold the glove in place on the suit side cuff ring may be more secure, allow one to still have the redundancy of wrist seals if desired, and should be effectively watertight.

Personally I like the convenience and functionality offered by being able to quickly attach and separate my gloves from my suit, but to each their own.

-Z

 

[taimen]

...that could work but I think it limits one to the type of glove that can be used to set things up this way. I am not sure it will work with the PVC or nitrile type SHOWA gloves but it would be interesting to know if anyone has tried it.

Well I have tried with Santi smartrings, and tegera nitrile gloves are fine but Showa 720s are difficult to attach properly. Sitech rings are different. I'd expect 720s can be succesfully installed on both but 720s may be tedious and reguire some lubricant. Latex gloves are easy.

 

[Storker]

would probably be using my semi-dry or wetsuit

Good for you. I have neither.

 

[Zef]

Good for you. I have neither.

I don't think drygloves, regardless of how you attach them, are a solution for orneriness. But I wish you well and happy diving regardless.

Cheers,
-Z

 

[Degenerate]

Today I discovered where I draw the line for diving without liners in my 720s.
4 degrees celsius is not a comfortable temp to dive without a liner!
We had 6-10 degrees a bit closer to the surface and that was pretty much the limit for what I could manage.
Will definitely invest in a pair of liners before going back there!