Tying boltsnaps to backup lights

[cmalinowski]

...Even if "you are in something so tight you cannot turn around", and someone has been "signaling me to end the dive" , at least you know why you're turning the dive before you "get to a less narrow spot." ...

What is the light signal for "end the dive"?

By "not turn around" do we mean "unable to communicate"?

I am truly curious about this situation. I haven't taken cave1 yet, so I really have no idea as to the realities of the situation and what protocol is.

I can understand not being able to fully, easily turn around. But, if you are in a situation where you have the ability to do an OOG share, then you should have enough space to communicate. Stopping for a moment to communicate, would be the preferred option here, correct? If you are not in a situation that permits OOG share, then you are not diving DIR: "Wait here while I go turn around" is not an option.

Chris

 

[Jason B]

I can understand not being able to fully, easily turn around. But, if you are in a situation where you have the ability to do an OOG share, then you should have enough space to communicate. Stopping for a moment to communicate, would be the preferred option here, correct? If you are not in a situation that permits OOG share, then you are not diving DIR: "Wait here while I go turn around" is not an option.

Chris

I'm sure DIR divers are allowed to do restrictions.

There is no "turn around" light signal, but it should go without saying that if your buddy's primary light dies, the dive is over. That's not to say that you don't wait for a thumb from your buddy but if he doesn't give one, I would.

Some folks will prefer the LED's and some will prefer the standard bulb. At this juncture I don't think GUE has a stance on one being correct and one being wrong.

 

[limeyx]

I hope I'm reading this wrong but if I'm in a cave and my buddy's light dies and he goes on a back-up and he doesn't thumb the dive, you can believe I'm thumbing it, and probably won't dive with them again after that.

Yes, you are reading it wrong.

 

[limeyx]

I'm sure DIR divers are allowed to do restrictions.

...
Some folks will prefer the LED's and some will prefer the standard bulb. At this juncture I don't think GUE has a stance on one being correct and one being wrong.

I think the GUE guys at zero gravity in Mx are moving toward the LED lights

 

[limeyx]

If you are relying on the reduced power of the light to end the dive, then wouldn't it be better to not use any backup light? That would be even more obvious.

Surely there must be a better way to do it.

Um yes, there is. You turn on the backup light (whichever kind it is) and signal side to side with it just as you would in any other circumstance to get a buddy's attention.

There is a slight chance with the halogen lights that in poor vis, the guy in front with a 21W light might not see you signaling at first, but they should pretty soon notice a lack of a light behind them.

Then you turn the dive. If you are in the middle of a restriction then I guess (but I am not trained to do them) you might need to navigate the restriction before turning the dive.

In our cave1 class, it was generally pretty obvious when a primary light behind us went out, almost immediately -- and even if the light had not gone out, but a buddy just made a quick movement with a light, I would turn around to check they werent being molested by anyone...

i really think it's a bit of a moot point.

That said, if you *do* notice a change in a light (color, movements etc.) obviously you have to turn to see whats up.

 

[cmalinowski]

Um yes, there is. You turn on the backup light (whichever kind it is) and signal side to side with it just as you would in any other circumstance to get a buddy's attention.

There is a slight chance with the halogen lights that in poor vis, the guy in front with a 21W light might not see you signaling at first, but they should pretty soon notice a lack of a light behind them.

Then you turn the dive. If you are in the middle of a restriction then I guess (but I am not trained to do them) you might need to navigate the restriction before turning the dive.

In our cave1 class, it was generally pretty obvious when a primary light behind us went out, almost immediately -- and even if the light had not gone out, but a buddy just made a quick movement with a light, I would turn around to check they werent being molested by anyone...

i really think it's a bit of a moot point.

That said, if you *do* notice a change in a light (color, movements etc.) obviously you have to turn to see whats up.

exactly

 

[ScubaMilo]

I think part of the point that Riguerin was trying to make is after the guy on the back-up light turns the dive, the light is easier to tell apart from the white glow of the HID's.

If he needs to signal for any reason his light would be easier to see as it does not blend in as well with the light color of the HID's.
We have practiced going to a back up lights during dives before, the LED tended to be harder to see when being signaled from behind.(This was all in open water not in dark overhead enviroment)
I noticed that the halogen scout has a very focused spot where the led's were a little more dispersed.
I have not seen all of the new LED upgrades only the Halcyon one so my opinion may be changed in the future.

Just my 2 cents,
Milo

 

[limeyx]

I think part of the point that Riguerin was trying to make is after the guy on the back-up light turns the dive, the light is easier to tell apart from the white glow of the HID's.

If he needs to signal for any reason his light would be easier to see as it does not blend in as well with the light color of the HID's.
We have practiced going to a back up lights during dives before, the LED tended to be harder to see when being signaled from behind.(This was all in open water not in dark overhead enviroment)
I noticed that the halogen scout has a very focused spot where the led's were a little more dispersed.
I have not seen all of the new LED upgrades only the Halcyon one so my opinion may be changed in the future.

Just my 2 cents,
Milo

I found the opposite to be true at redondo at night when my primary failed.

i went to my halogen scout, we were swimming three people wing on wing, me in the middle.

After about 3 mins of swimming Pete got so frustrated he couldn't keep track of me, that he got out his Heser LED and gave it to me.

They were able to track me *far* more easily that way.

maybe if I was directly behind the LED would have been harder but I dont think so -- Pete went right out and got the Heser directly after Cave1 and Andy is researching upgrading all his backups...true, three data points dont necessarily make a trend, but some evidence that LED is a good way to go.

I only used the LED in the day one time -- and that was snorkeling at grand cenote

 

[Jason B]

As I said, there is currently no standard so use what you like, not all will agree with you.

A quote from my C2/T2 buddy on this topic.

FWIW, I tried the PT LED in a cave last week alongside a scout LED and a halogen scout. The two LED's were pretty much identical in the water, might have been a bit more light with the PT, but not enough to say. It is substantially cheaper though. The halogen scout put out the least light, but it was the easiest to see mixed in with HID beams. The two LED's are about the same color as the HID and they disappear completely when the HID is near them. The weaker halogen spot from the scout was more easily noticed for signalling. I'll probably use one of each.

 

[CompuDude]

I just ordered the Dive Rite LED backup light . . . It's twist-on, 2 C cell LED backup with a 50 hour burn time. If it's anywhere near as nice as the PT LED light, at $119 it was a steal.

Let us know how it works out! That might be a good alternate to the absurd H pricing of their 2C scout + LED upgrade, while we wait for the PT to finally be released in a 2C version.