TSandM: Missing Diver in Clallam County, WA

[tstormdiver]

In other words, no pissing matches please. She wouldn't have wanted that and would have been the first to jump in and calm things down.

I think the greatest tribute to Lynne that any of us can give, here on this, & other boards, is to use the same thoughtfulness, kindness, civility & generosity, that she did when she posted. Don't get me wrong,... I've let my emotions get the better of me, during a heated argument, before. This thread & the memorial thread has had me thinking about that. In her memory, I am going to do better to remain level headed, even when personally attacked or feel I'm in the right.

 

[Wayward Son]

you don't even have to do any dives on nitrox to get rec certified on it any more.

I've found that I'm sensitive to higher PO2 when exerting, but it's more of a sudden buzz. It took experiencing it a few times to figure out what the deal was & how to handle it (stop exerting & if possible get higher in the water column while breathing slow & easy until it passes).

 

[John C. Ratliff]

Nobody is diving oxygen at 3 atmospheres. Probably everybody would convulse eventually at 3 atmospheres. Very few convulse at 1.6 atmospheres even in long term exposure. I'm not sure the test would be relevant. Kind of like seeing who threw up after drinking 3 quarts of water and then not allowing them to drink 1 quart. The dose makes the poison.

Please read my post #288 again, for a paper on the subject that I added after you read it.

SeaRat

 

[Akimbo]

Nobody is diving oxygen at 3 atmospheres. Probably everybody would convulse eventually at 3 atmospheres. Very few convulse at 1.6 atmospheres even in long term exposure. I'm not sure the test would be relevant. Kind of like seeing who threw up after drinking 3 quarts of water and then not allowing them to drink 1 quart. The dose makes the poison.

Yes, eventually. I went through the same test as John Ratliff before I could become a Navy Diver, like everyone else. They don't do these tests in the US Navy anymore but they were quite common until sometime in the 1990s. I also saw a French company routinely letting divers approach 3 ATA in the water in the 1970s. It is also not uncommon for special forces to reach that depth on pure Oxygen rebreathers for short periods... like when someone is trying to kill them.

The PPO2 for a standard chamber treatment is 2.8.

Oxygen Toxicity Limits & Symptoms

 

[DaleC]

I think speculation is ok as long as it is clearly identified as such i.e. this could have happened instead of this did happen. I think Lynne would be ok with that as long as it were done in an intelligent and friendly manner as it causes people to think about potential problems they might encounter, even if she did not. This keeps it in the realm of general ideas and not a personal inference about her or Peter. I think it is possible to do that.

I am reminded of another death last year involving a popular member of the board who's username was Quero. In a similar fashion, she died doing a dive within her capacity. As it turned out there was a fair amount of evidence that the cause may have revolved around a certain laxity in approach and the incorrect use of unfamiliar equipment. Even then it was difficult to separate the respect for her on a personal board level and the behavior that resulted in a scuba accident.

In this case there seems to be little evidence that Lynne was using incorrect gear or techniques so that blurring of lines shouldn't really come into play. The discussion probably should revolve around the effects of various manners of incapacitation and how they may play out acutely in a major event or consequentially in an ever widening incident pit that proved unrecoverable from. To me those options involve:

Equipment failure: A catastrophic failure of the drysuit vent might create a sequence of events that could overwhelm someone.
Medical event: Whether it were MI, stroke, overexertion or vertigo, the effect might have been instantaneous or extended in such a way that a person could not react effectively.
Entanglement: Though remote according this dive site description, there is a chance some sort of entanglement occurred.
Wildlife interaction: Pretty remote as well when thinking of the usual suspects (sharks/Orcas) but swimming straight into something as uneventful as a large lionsmane jelly might create a cascade of reactions with negative results.

Some events are more likely than others but all are just speculation until more evidence develops. I hope we really don't need to speculate as to whether Lynne was prepared for the dive or had the skills or training but at the same time, have to remember that not everyone had the same understanding of her and Peters abilities. Most of all, I can imagine her responding in a an intelligent and civil way and making her points based upon there merits.

 

[Hawkwood]

... I hope we really don't need to speculate as to whether Lynne was prepared for the dive or had the skills or training but at the same time, have to remember that not everyone had the same understanding of her and Peters abilities. Most of all, I can imagine her responding in a an intelligent and civil way and making her points based upon there merits.

Dale, that was really well said. Thank you for posting this.

I hope everyone takes this message to heart when they compose their posts.

 

[bryanmc57]

Is it possible that there was some unknown injury from the equestrian accident 3 days (I believe that was the time frame I read) before that last dive that was aggravated during the rapid descent, ascent and likely physical exertion that occurred during the dive?

 

[Kevrumbo]

I think speculation is ok as long as it is clearly identified as such i.e. this could have happened instead of this did happen. I think Lynne would be ok with that as long as it were done in an intelligent and friendly manner as it causes people to think about potential problems they might encounter, even if she did not. This keeps it in the realm of general ideas and not a personal inference about her or Peter. I think it is possible to do that. . .

Some events are more likely than others but all are just speculation until more evidence develops. I hope we really don't need to speculate as to whether Lynne was prepared for the dive or had the skills or training but at the same time, have to remember that not everyone had the same understanding of her and Peters abilities. Most of all, I can imagine her responding in a an intelligent and civil way and making her points based upon there merits.

Dale, that was really well said. Thank you for posting this.
I hope everyone takes this message to heart when they compose their posts.

We all know as a FACT, that she was always prepared and had the skills.
Respectfully . . .in her own words:

Originally Posted by TSandM
I wonder, from my own experience, whether panic is something that happens early, or whether you can devolve into it . . . thinking about drifting with no boat, I would think that, if I were reasoning through things like using my signaling devices and getting positive, that I might become increasingly discouraged and frightened, but I'd be unlikely to panic, maybe because there is no action available that's going to change anything when one panics.

In both diving and in my work, the worst fear for me seems to be instant -- once I'm settled down to working out a solution, the fear retreats.

Panic in the experienced diver?

Originally Posted by TSandM
I still remember that day very vividly. My instructor and I went to do our first descent (which I was, of course, doing on my back) and I got caught in current and blown away from him, landing on the bottom in 45 feet of water, very much alone. I sat up, looked around, and thought, "Hmm. No buddy. They taught me a procedure for that . . . " which I proceeded to execute. I don't know whether I don't have enough imagination to be frightened, or whether my medical training has raised my panic threshold, but that's kind of the way I've been throughout my diving career.

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/basic-scuba-discussions/510064-ten-years-4.html#post7452133

 

[Akimbo]

I think speculation is ok as long as it is clearly identified as such i.e. this could have happened instead of this did happen...

Agreed. A lot can be learned from thoughtful speculation, which is essentially analyzing diving procedures, physics, and physiology. I think Lynne would like that.

Perhaps more important than “this could happen” is “this could happen to any of us”.

 

[JohnN]

Is it possible that there was some unknown injury from the equestrian accident 3 days (I believe that was the time frame I read) before that last dive that was aggravated during the rapid descent, ascent and likely physical exertion that occurred during the dive?

I heard the same report, but was unable to post it because it was told to me in confidence. The fall was described to me as 'nasty'. DAN says to suspend diving for 1 month after a mild, uncomplicated head injury.