TSA, the Fun Never Ends..

[Wildcard]

Kind of like people that are aganst the death penalty untill someone rapes and tortures there 12y/o to death, their view point changes in a hurry. How come those people aren't the ones on parole boards? if the idiots from canada that tried to bomb the space needle on NY2000 had not been captured and it had blown and fallen on your family, Im 1000% positive you would be singing a different song right now. Mighty big of you to accept the death of other people so you don't have to spend 15 minutes extra getting into the airport.

 

[Cacia]

Well, Lamont, you will probably get your wish.

I would like to applaud the record of whoever has kept us safe here at home since 9-11. We will just never know all the details, but I am impressed that nothing major has happened. Newt says we will lose an American city this decade.

I am not so quick to forget the
"other" 3000 lives we lost, BTW.

An optional background check is at least as Democratic as your short line for "preffered" flyers, Howarde.

You want to be favored for having spent more money....I want to be favored for not being a felon and so on. What's the difference?

No, TSA is not being effective from what I see. Which would be fine, if it were not so expensive. I am telling you, Indonesia has it down from outward appearances. I hear the Israelis are pretty effective also.

 

[HowardE]

An optional background check is at least as Democratic as your short line for "preffered" flyers, Howarde.

You want to be favored for having spent more money....I want to be favored for not being a felon and so on. What's the difference?

I am favored for being part of a frequent traveler program, and traveling frequently. I don't have to give up my privacy to do so. That's the difference. I would never (unless ordered by the court) allow someone to do a full background check on me. Not to say that there's anything there, but that is something I would protect. Is it really worth 5 minutes of your time to allow your private history to be opened up? Is that can of worms worth openeing, or should people just allow a few minutes of time at the airport, instead of arriving late with a bag full of hair gel?

 

[ReefHound]

I clearly can't stop the other 300 million people from tearing up the bill of rights to try to produce some perfectly safe society where there is are zero deaths from terrorism and the playgrounds are so sanitized that no kid breaks an arm anymore. I doubt the direction we're going is the way that our founding father envisioned though.

Alluding to zero deaths and no broken arms is a desperate attempt to ridicule the concept of security. Quite a bit different from trying to prevent mass attacks that kill thousands of people at once.

I doubt our founding fathers envisioned a world where one person has the technological capability to kill 100,000 without warning. In any event, it's our time not theirs. They got to set the rules for their day, we get to set the rules for ours. We are no more bound to their standards than the people ten generations into the future will be to ours.

You don't notice erosion of civil liberties until it is too late.

Except for you, of course. So you cannot name specifically one right you have lost?

 

[ReefHound]

An optional background check is at least as Democratic as your short line for "preffered" flyers, Howarde.

You want to be favored for having spent more money....I want to be favored for not being a felon and so on. What's the difference?

I don't agree with the concept of pre-screening and "fast lines" unless the background check is quite extensive and reviewed frequently. People change. All felons were once non-felons. All the terrorists need do is get to one of those with clearance through blackmail, extortion, or bribery.

 

[tedtim]

Everyone has been pointing out the PROBELM with nobody pointing to a solution only a lot of whining about how bad the TSA is. That's my point. If it's so bad... let's hear some examples of something better.

I don't think that everyone has been pointing out the problem. The problem is political, and the TOS rightly prevent us from addressing that.

Look back at the original post. I don't see too many folks complaining about having security prior to boarding an aircraft. What I read is that the application of the processes and procedures is so inconsistent as to be subject to ridicule. Yes there are rules, but having to escort someone out of the airport because they had some gel in their luggage, or for not using the "Zip Lock" brand of bag are but two examples of how things have gone wrong. If you want to apply security, then apply it across the board. Apply it to the folks that handle the checked luggage as well.

This type of inadequate application of good procedures, IMO, fails to address the psychological and social confidence aspects. It just points out to anyone who is looking that the reaction is partially effective.

I find it interesting that should I have the misfortune of losing a bag while travelling, the bag will be shipped to me with little concern for security. Yet, when someone has not boarded an aircraft (which happens from time to time), the departure is delayed until their luggage is found and unloaded. Apply the same level of security across the board. I doubt that this is done. Sure, you can pack items in checked baggage that would otherwise pose a problem if they were immediately available to someone on the aircraft.

What would prevent those baggage handling folks who steal stuff from putting something really bad into a bag instead? The are many published examples of the inadequacies of the security in place for them entering the working area.

Conduct full and frequent tests on the system. When a fault is found, hold those who failed to do their work properly responsible. Hold their supervisors responsible. They are charged with the task of providing security and from the examples given in this thread only show a broad base of lack of confidence.

Undermining the system is the knee jerk reaction that typically occurs when something happens. For example, I was travelling by air on the morning immediately after the original scare with the liquids. The response was immediate. NO liquids allowed through the security check, all drink dispensers were shut down both before and after the security check point, NO coffee or other liquids could be taken out of the restaurant area - the area past the X-ray and hand luggage check. Why was this done? A knee jerk reaction that simply raises fear in people rather than a rational approach to an incident.

In this case, the solution developed is contributing to the problem, not addressing the problem. It seems that nobody is looking ahead at what kind of threats are possible, they wait until something is discovered. Use the intelligence available to develop scenarios, then test them in a controlled setting. If the security system is inadequate, then make changes based on the outcome of the scenario AND ensure they are applied consistently across the board. The crazies that attempt to do us harm don't have a monopoly on ideas. If they can think up plots, then so can the so called experts who are supposed to provide the system to defend against them.

Will this cost a bunch of bucks to do. You bet it will. Better to get it right then have to do it over.

 

[garyfotodiver]

I do my share of traveling and I do not mind the extra discomfort at the security points. I also expect that I am more of a social libertarian and personal-rights advocate than most on this board. Big Deal!

In other words, as a former, late Michigan football coach might have saud, "Suck it up and get on with your lives."

 

[ianw2]

With all due respect, as Richard Jackson put it in a quote often attributed to Benjamin Franklin, "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

I travel quite a bit. A few years back, I was wearing my kippah when I was flying from Sacramento, CA back to southern California. It was a big mistake. The middle eastern TSA guards virtually strip searched me. Suffice it to say that I do not wear any of my kippah when traveling.

For personal observation, the application of the "rules" are both arbitrary and capricious, subject only to the whims and will of low paid "security" employees with little or no training and, judging from recent uncovered errors, very little security vetting, themselves.

I have a feeling that the founding fathers of our nation are rolling over in their graves at the current injustices been perpetrated in the name of "security" and "freedom".

As a naturalized American Citizen, I mean no disrespect to the service men and women who have bravely fought and paid for the freedoms and privileges I enjoy as an American.

 

[Cacia]

It was funny because we just flew to the east coast through Atlanta and they were just tossing the liquids in the trash, not escorting kids to the parking lot. Look, I don't really care that much. I will fly to "dangerous" places in a whatever plane, helicopter, and I don't worry about security because the truth is that more people probably will die of blood clots after flying than terrorists. I really don't even get worked up if my luggage were to be lost.

I remember last year about this time, the Tsunami hit and wiped out thousands. Then the news flipped to some American woman stating that her luggage was lost and how it had "devastated " her family's holidays.

I just was remarking that every time I fly it's some new procedure. Shoes? no shoes. Flip flops can stay on, sometimes they can't....I would like to see a little less attitude as they put us through the paces, that's all. It is not always the same, but the guy was giving me a big lecture, telling me just that.

As far as privacy, I feel it has already been lost. Just the computer medical records alone.... I figure if I am going to lose my privacy, I would like the option to offer up some of MY OWN information to make MY OWN life easier, since the marketing companies and insurance companies have certainly had their way with me. Everyone else has benefited from my information, why can't I?

 

[ams511]

I am telling you, Indonesia has it down from outward appearances.

This is funny, there are signs in the airports warning about traveling there because they do not take proper precautions.

BTW. I was stuck in the Philly airport overnight and asked a TSA guy if I could borrow the lighter that was sitting on his table. He said no it is TSA property. I thought he was kidding me, but he said he was serious.

Just to p*ss you off, the woman in front of me going through security had a cosmetic bag full of liquids and gels and they let her pass without a problem. There is no standard practice with TSA at all.

The worst place I have been was Montreal. I was almost stripped searched because my watch and belt set off the metal detector. I have to remove both to be hand inspected. I could not believe it.