TSA, the Fun Never Ends..

[HowardE]

Until such time that they do complete strip searches and body cavity searches, TSA Insecurity is a total and complete joke and a total waste of time.

And just what would your ingenious insecurity plan be? No security at all? Oh please enlighten us.

To all of those who have knocked the TSA to no end... While I don't think they're perfect, what would be better? In all seriousness. I am by no means a flag waver (ask anyone who knows me) - but I do fly a lot, and I'd like to know what would really be better? Relinquishing the secuirty back to the airlines is definitely not an option...

 

[mdb]

"Until such time that they do complete strip searches and body cavity searches, TSA Insecurity is a total and complete joke and a total waste of time."

A total complete waste of time and money. Last week a friend was traveling from Seattle to Phoenix. Their daughter had placed 5 steak knives each with a five inch blade in her Mothers purse. Her Mom forgot about it. So did TSA. They sailed through security with five knives. Of course, they took off their shoes, opened the laptop, etc. The knives were still there. What a farce it all is.

 

[Cacia]

what would your ingenious insecurity plan be?

well...since you asked.

I would like a data base that ran you before you ever got to the airport. TOTALLY optional. If you wanted to be pre-cleared, you could volunteer certain information. I have no problem with profiling, as long as it is based on actual realities.

If you see that as too overreaching or an invasion, you could get in the longer line and get searched the way they did it in Dempasar. Your seams, all your bags, etc.

I am not bashing the individual people, they must be frustrated too, or I doubt they would act the way they do. Their job could be more satisfying.
The whole thing is a huge waste of money. Even the pilots think so. Let somebody run it who knows how.

The solution will be information-based, not object based (like a nail file, or even a knife) Start looking for terrorists, not objects.

 

[HowardE]

well...since you asked.

I would like a data base that ran you before you ever got to the airport. TOTALLY optional. If you wanted to be pre-cleared, you could volunteer certain information. I have no problem with profiling, as long as it is based on actual realities.

If you see that as too overreaching or an invasion, you could get in the longer line and get searched the way they did it in Dempasar. Your seams, all your bags, etc.

I am not bashing the individual people, they must be frustrated too, or I doubt they would act the way they do. Their job could be more satisfying.
The whole thing is a huge waste of money. Even the pilots think so. Let somebody run it who knows how.

The solution will be information-based, not object based (like a nail file, or even a knife) Start looking for terrorists, not objects.

that sounds more like an invasion of privacy every time you fly, rather than simple compliance with rules and regulations. I personally wouldn't want to give out any more personal information than already required.

Personally, I don't have to wait on the long line... there is usually a shorter line for preferred customers. The longest wait I've had all year has been a whopping 5 minutes.

People have been ripping on the TSA, and how they are ineffective. I don't think that giving up our privacy and personal freedom is an effective solution either, nothing ingenious about making it totally invasive. What's next, thought police?? This is still the United States of America, and we do have some rights.

 

[tedtim]

People have been ripping on the TSA, and how they are ineffective. I don't think that giving up our privacy and personal freedom is an effective solution either, nothing ingenious about making it totally invasive. What's next, thought police?? This is still the United States of America, and we do have some rights.

So much then for the passenger lists that have to be provided, even if the aircraft is overflying the US and not landing. Is this not an invasion of privacy?

The terrorists are winning. Every time we change the way we live (I don't care what country we speak about), then the actions of the few have made a significant imapact on the lives of the many. It keeps them in our minds, and that is a partial victory for them.

Blindly following rules and procedures does nothing IMO to address the problem. It only addresses the symptoms. It is a means of trying to demonstrate that "we are doing something" rather than finding the root cause and addressing that.

Now, if the rules and procedures were as strict for the idiots handling our luggage, then I would not be complaining. We get thoroughly checked before boarding an aircraft, but our luggage is treated with disdain - and I don't mean by the TSA. How in the heck can you feel safe when you know that your checked luggage goes through many hands that can do so many things to it?

I met a gent who works in the transportation safety world. He told me some very interesting, and scary stories about train travel. It will only take one attack on a train in a crowded station before the rules change. Why wait? Is there not a threat there? Again, the reaction that is the TSA is simply addressing the symptoms.

 

[HowardE]

So much then for the passenger lists that have to be provided, even if the aircraft is overflying the US and not landing. Is this not an invasion of privacy?

No it's not.

A passenger manifest, and a background check? No comparison. If the passenger manifest had my home address, phone number, religion, race, and maybe social security number, then it would be an invasion of privacy. My name on a list isn't.

Blindly following rules and procedures does nothing IMO to address the problem. It only addresses the symptoms. It is a means of trying to demonstrate that "we are doing something" rather than finding the root cause and addressing that.

Airline security isn't new. The only thing new in the equation (in the U.S.) is the "governmentalizing" of the security workers. What in this case wouldn't address the symptoms? Old fashioned airline security?

A lot of people are complaining, but still nobody's coming up with something better.

If it wasn't the TSA, people would be complaining about airline security in general, and blaming United and Delta for crappy security. it's not a pleasant task, but it has to be done.

 

[ReefHound]

A total complete waste of time and money. Last week a friend was traveling from Seattle to Phoenix. Their daughter had placed 5 steak knives each with a five inch blade in her Mothers purse. Her Mom forgot about it. So did TSA. They sailed through security with five knives. Of course, they took off their shoes, opened the laptop, etc. The knives were still there. What a farce it all is.

I dare you to pack steak knives in your luggage next time you fly, if you're so sure you'll get by. As I said earlier, the inconsistency is actually our best security. The terrorists don't know what will get by from one day to the next, one airport to the next. They can't devise an operational plan based on that uncertainty. The terrorists succeeded on 9/11 because they had tested their plan. They had flown all over the U.S., including the exact same set of flights a few weeks earlier. They knew boxcutters were not prohibited, they had been questioned, they knew what responses eased suspicions.

 

[ReefHound]

The terrorists are winning. Every time we change the way we live (I don't care what country we speak about), then the actions of the few have made a significant imapact on the lives of the many. It keeps them in our minds, and that is a partial victory for them.

Oh please, not the ole "if we do/don't <insert pet cause here> the terrorists are winning" line. The hard reality is that we live in a world with a state of technology that allows a few to do things that affect many. It's only going to get worse. You can't stick your head in the sand and pretend that others don't exist. They can do things that will affect you. Having to take measures to guard against terrorist attack changes the way we live. But not taking the measures to guard against terrorist attack would change the way we live even more, unless we're prepared to just absorb an "acceptable" number of losses on an ongoing basis. There is no option where we don't change.

 

[Diver Dennis]

well...since you asked.

I would like a data base that ran you before you ever got to the airport. TOTALLY optional. If you wanted to be pre-cleared, you could volunteer certain information. I have no problem with profiling, as long as it is based on actual realities.

If you see that as too overreaching or an invasion, you could get in the longer line and get searched the way they did it in Dempasar. Your seams, all your bags, etc.

I am not bashing the individual people, they must be frustrated too, or I doubt they would act the way they do. Their job could be more satisfying.
The whole thing is a huge waste of money. Even the pilots think so. Let somebody run it who knows how.

The solution will be information-based, not object based (like a nail file, or even a knife) Start looking for terrorists, not objects.

Ask and you shall receive...

http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/travel/nexus/menu-e.html

 

[tedtim]

No it's not.

A passenger manifest, and a background check? No comparison. If the passenger manifest had my home address, phone number, religion, race, and maybe social security number, then it would be an invasion of privacy. My name on a list isn't.

It is much more than a name on a list. Do a search on Google for 19CFR122.49a and 19CFR122.75b. While these regulations speak specifically to international travel, it is clear that the manifest is much more than simply a list with names. The requirements are to provide: The full name of each passenger and crew member; the date of birth and citizenship of each passenger and crew member; the gender of each passenger and crew member; the passport number and country of issuance of the passport of each passenger and crew member if a passport is required for travel; and the United States visa number or resident alien card number of each passenger and crew member, as applicable

Note that this applies to both US Citizens and others arriving in and departing from the United States. You won't need to put your address, etc. on a separate list. It is already included by link to your passport information. The passport will be required for anyone entering the United States by road, air, or sea in the very near future.

These regulations identify the requirement to provide passport information. That itself is linked to other personal information. It is much more than just a name on a list. And it will soon be required for more than just air travel.