TSA got you down?

[Mike Boswell]

Thanks, Mike. Hysteria led to the loss of thousands of lives, hundreds of billions of dollars, and civil rights that we apparently took for granted, like the freedom from illegal search. The hysteria was a bad idea then, it's a bad idea now, and it will be a bad idea the next time a bomb goes off. Silly buggers indeed, everybody who takes comfort in these searches in the misplaced notion that they are keeping us safe. Or in these wars, which are also doing nothing to keep us safe.

You are welcome, Vladimir.

I take some comfort in airport security, because I DO think they help in preventing most terrorist attacks on aircraft. But comfort or not, one can't point to many security failures or downed aircraft since 9/11.

I think that for searches to be "illegal searches" from a US constitutional standpoint, they would have to be involuntary. People are volunteering to undergo the searches in order to travel on airplanes.

 

[iztok]

1st, there is an equal number of flights from Israel and to Israel every day, and since none has been blown up recently we have no proof that airport security in Israel is any better than in any other country.

I am assuming you never flew to or from Israel based on what you just wrote. Am I wrong?

 

[iztok]

I take some comfort in airport security, because I DO think they help in preventing most terrorist attacks on aircraft.

Security experts tend to disagree with you.

 

[ScubaSteve]

But comfort or not, one can't point to many security failures or downed aircraft since 9/11.

How many can you point to before that? I genuinely do not know but I would wager that you can not point to too many. One could (and will) argue that it is not in fact the "security measures" that have been forced onto the inconvenienced traveller that has caused the lack of terrorist action involving airplanes post-9/11. How is it you can guarantee yourself that the only reason there has been no successful terrorist attempts is the wonderful and very effective FAUX security steps? There could be many, many reason why there has been no massive coordinated attacks utilizing airplanes against the US. Planning, Fear, Disinterest....I fail to see what you see as a guarantee.

 

[Angry Turtle]

You are welcome, Vladimir.

I take some comfort in airport security, because I DO think they help in preventing most terrorist attacks on aircraft. But comfort or not, one can't point to many security failures or downed aircraft since 9/11. .

Nor can one do it for the 10 year period before that.

I think that for searches to be "illegal searches" from a US constitutional standpoint, they would have to be involuntary. People are volunteering to undergo the searches in order to travel on airplanes.

nothing voluntary about it, you either do it or you don't fly.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Catching up after four days offline ...

What I find hypocritical or just stupid is if you are on this board complaining about loosing your "rights" I assume you have been on a dive charter at some point. If you have then you signed waivers that supposedly give all your "rights" away, and probably did it gladly. I have never been on a boat and heard anyone complaining about the violation of their Constitutional rights! So you signed it thinking "I can always sue them later" making you a hypocrite. Pretty fuzzy line in the sand.

Oh not at all ... signing a liability waiver on a dive boat isn't at all about giving up your rights ... it's about you taking responsibility for your own safety. Nobody's offering to irradiate you or fondle your nuts before you get on board.

If TSA wants me to sign a liability waiver before boarding a plane, I have no problem with that at all.

I would rather get frisked than killed by a bomb.

Which would be well and good if the act of frisking caught those with the bombs. Unfortunately, it hasn't.

If you are not flying why do you care about this? It doesn't impact you, not even a bit.

Unfortunately, it does ... because it redefines the powers granted to the US government ... not by the Constitution, but by the citizens who find this behavior acceptable. If you think they're going to stop with air travel, I think you're in for a nasty surprise.

Will you feel differently when (not if) this type of invasive security becomes normal in order for you to board a subway, or shop at your local mall? It will, you know ...

I just passed through security at LaGuardia on my way to Florida. Took about 5 minutes. My carry-on is a pelican case with two regulators, 2 dive computers, a GPS unit, an underwater camera +flash...and some other "stuff"; absolutely no hassles.With all the hype about TSA, personally I have NO COMPLAINTS.

Not all airports have this new, enhanced security in place ... yet.

I have always wondered why terrorists target civilians for their senseless slaughter.

Blow up a building? Do they think some janitor or data entry clerk is responsible for their grievances?

Do they think the US Government is going to change it's policies if a few thousand of the hoi polloi bite the dust? Hell, they don't even contribute to political campaigns!

I know we're a much easier target than the fatcats making the decisions, but c'mon, guys - get a clue! Really!

Their objective isn't to target the government ... it's to make the population fearful. So far, it appears they've succeeded.

The change has to come in the American psyche. We should deter, we should fight back, but not without regard to cost and consequence. There will be casualties--get over it. We ask that of our military every day. The spectacle of us spending hundreds of soldier's lives and hundreds of billions of dollars to pacify Afghanistan so that China is safe to mine the country's wealth sickens me. So does the spectacle of Americans docilely lining up to be searched like criminals just so they can board a plane.

Isn't it ironic that American soldiers die almost daily in an effort to secure our rights as US citizens ... while their civilian counterparts are almost eager to give up those rights out of fear for their safety.

I think that for searches to be "illegal searches" from a US constitutional standpoint, they would have to be involuntary. People are volunteering to undergo the searches in order to travel on airplanes.

... then why is there a hefty fine and a potential prison term for anyone who decides to "opt out" of a search once they've been informed that the TSA has chosen them for such measures?

If this is "voluntary", why shouldn't someone be free to just walk away?

The notion that you give up your rights as US citizens with the purchase of an airline ticket is more frightening to me than the potential for becoming the casualty of some terrorist's activities.

We have met the enemy, and it is us ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[ekremer]

I have to ask, for all of you in favor of these invasive search procedures, when is enough enough?

What is unreasonable to you?

Here is the fourth Amendment "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

Boarder searches thus far have been considered reasonable searches. But I have to ask, what could the government do that you feel would cross that line?

 

[tarponchik]

I am assuming you never flew to or from Israel based on what you just wrote. Am I wrong?

Your assumption is correct but why would this matter?

 

[iztok]

Your assumption is correct but why would this matter?

I thought so.

All international flights to Israel have additional screening beyond what TSA does. You basically go through another layer of security before entering terminal area for your flight to TLV.

 

[tarponchik]

I thought so.

All international flights to Israel have additional screening beyond what TSA does. You basically go through another layer of security before entering terminal area for your flight to TLV.

1st, every flight to US must go through their security following the same standards as in US, which is basically the same thing except for the personel who's doing it. 2nd, how many terrorists have this secondary security by the Israelis caught? Are we again comparing zero with zero?