TSA got you down?

[tarponchik]

The favorite solution among the cognoscenti seems to be to adopt Israeli strategies. I wonder how many domestic passengers Israel has each day? How many international passengers?

You and all other advocates for the Israeli approach have no idea what you are talking about, because the Israeli ways can be quite paranoid. This is all wishful thinking, based on "I am sure the TSA will do me no harm 'cause I am sure they'll figure out I am such a nice guy and they will strip and search someone else" assumption.

Personally, I would prefer no extra security except for the regular metal detectors and X-raying of bags. Everything above that is beyond reasonable costs.

 

[tyesai]

You and all other advocates for the Israeli approach have no idea what you are talking about, because the Israeli ways can be quite paranoid. This is all wishful thinking, based on "I am sure the TSA will do me no harm 'cause I am sure they'll figure out I am such a nice guy and they will strip and search someone else" assumption.

Personally, I would prefer no extra security except for the regular metal detectors and X-raying of bags. Everything above that is beyond reasonable costs.

We shouldn't even give a **** about the cost as the airlines should be paying for it not the taxpayers, or maybe a particular airline company doesn't pay for it.

Then you get a choice, you can fly with D company who shoves their finger up everyones butt and strip searches Grandma's and charges you twice as much as E company who lets you walk straight on the jet.

Let the consumer pick his or her convienence / safety level. Besides the goverment does nothing but screw it up and cost you guys that pay taxes more money.

 

[iztok]

You and all other advocates for the Israeli approach have no idea what you are talking about, because the Israeli ways can be quite paranoid.

Really have no idea? Some of us have gone through both domestic and international flights in Israel more than once. Some quite recently.

 

[vladimir]

Gulliver | The Economist

Bruce Schneier, a security guru, calls all this “security theatre”. He suspects they merely prompt attackers to change targets, and reckons it makes more sense to invest in better intelligence. Some suggest adopting Israel’s security model, based on extensive interviewing of passengers, but Mr Schneier says its methods cannot be scaled up to accommodate America’s tens of millions of passengers.

.

 

[iztok]

TLV processes almost 11 million passengers a year compared to the busiest ATL at 88 million.

Israel population 7.4 million, US population 307 million.

US airports process around 800 million passengers a year.

 

[GrumpyOldGuy]

The Israeli system does reduce the reliance on technology like scanners and is effective. I wonder though if we are ready to also accept the racial profiling and extended questioning used in Israel in order to avoid the body scanner. I am not trying to bash their system, it is effective but it may not really be as benign for all passengers. There are plenty of horror stories of dark skinned people being questioned for 3-4 hours just because they did not answer some questions correctly. At least part of the tendency to rely (over rely) on technology is to prevent racial discrimination.

In then end, I think we should try to learn from them to improve our system, but not copy them.

 

[Mike Boswell]

It's funny how easily terrified people are, and how quickly they forget. After the 9/11 attacks that killed 3,000 Americans, people were so scared of terrorists that they supported wars in two countries that have cost hundreds of billions of dollars and killed hundreds of thousands of people, including about 45,000 Americans.

Today, because of heightened security and better intelligence, we feel more secure and some of us get all huffy when someone wants to scan or frisk us. But let one plane blow up, and people will be panicking again.

Silly buggers.

 

[tarponchik]

Really have no idea? Some of us have gone through both domestic and international flights in Israel more than once. Some quite recently.

I,m sure you did, so what?

1st, there is an equal number of flights from Israel and to Israel every day, and since none has been blown up recently we have no proof that airport security in Israel is any better than in any other country.

2nd, while Israel is a small country with a small number of airports, and probably they can organize a small force of smart and highly trained security professionals who rely mainly on their judgement, in US the TSA can't do that since they need a huge herd of agents. Since in US any smart ex-military types would rather work for Blackwater and its clones, or maybe FBI/DEA/police, all TSA can do is assemble a line of human robots who blindly follow their Manuals and SOPs.

3d, even though human judgement can be beneficial for a mass traveller, this judgement can also be stupid, irrational, and harmful in some cases, and Israel is no exception. Back in the early 00's, I worked for a big biotech company that at some moment found that the Israelis dumped all international packages into a field at the airport. They kept all shipments there for a week during which time any bomb(s), if present, supposedly would have exploded (?!). Needless to say, any biologicals were rotten in a week, no matter how much dry or blue ice was packed into the styrofoam containers. This does not strike me as an exemplary brilliance in fighting terrorism. Then, while working in Egypt, I spent some time with a tech rep from a known European company that makes medical and research equipment. He told me that though his service area includeded most of the Middle East, he could never enter Israel from Egypt or Jordan or any other Arab country; he always had to go back to Netherlands first. This was a big inconvenience for him, and made me wonder why this guy who looked like Greg Pitts' twin was either welcome or unwelcome, depending not on who he is or what he looks like, but on where he was coming from. So, given a choice, in the age of mass paranoia I would rather rely on some government's SOPs and Manuals than on some @sshole's judgement (though I would prefer none of the above).

 

[ScubaSteve]

.....all TSA can do is assemble a line of human robots who blindly follow their Manuals and SOPs.........

 

[vladimir]

It's funny how easily terrified people are, and how quickly they forget. After the 9/11 attacks that killed 3,000 Americans, people were so scared of terrorists that they supported wars in two countries that have cost hundreds of billions of dollars and killed hundreds of thousands of people, including about 45,000 Americans.

Today, because of heightened security and better intelligence, we feel more secure and some of us get all huffy when someone wants to scan or frisk us. But let one plane blow up, and people will be panicking again.

Silly buggers.

Thanks, Mike. Hysteria led to the loss of thousands of lives, hundreds of billions of dollars, and civil rights that we apparently took for granted, like the freedom from illegal search. The hysteria was a bad idea then, it's a bad idea now, and it will be a bad idea the next time a bomb goes off. Silly buggers indeed, everybody who takes comfort in these searches in the misplaced notion that they are keeping us safe. Or in these wars, which are also doing nothing to keep us safe.