trouble trimming out in doubles

[Arcaporale]

I had the same problem, I ziptied a #4 soft weight to my bottom tank band and presto. The DIR guys are sure to frown upon that one.

 

[orange_diver]

i would say this is the first problem to solve right here

do you keep your dump valve open at all times? you may want to do that

do you remember to vent your suit as you ascend? you need to do that

once you are closer to the surface, don't let your feet get too far above your head, or all the air will rush to your feet again, making you feet light (and head heavy)

assuming you have already moved your tanks as much as possible, the second step i would take is to get an aluminum BP (if you don't already have it) and add 2-6 lbs on a weightbelt, to counteract any head-down tendencies of your rig (i dive with no weight other than my plate, so i don't feel adding 2-6 lbs to fix that problem would be too much ... this may not be a DIR answer, however ... so ... see what others say)

thx for the advice. re my kit, the tanks are up as much as possible already, and i'm already using a weightbelt with 8lb in it in addition to the SS backplate so i don't know that i want to switch to aluminum and put more weight on the belt. also, i have used a 4/b trim weight on the back of the tank.

 

[orange_diver]

It's not easy getting used to doubles -- I can testify to that. And I think it is possible that the wrong tanks just won't trim out on a given body. But there are things you can do about the head heaviness, as people have mentioned. Move the bands as high as they'll go on the tanks (as long as you can still reach your valves). Switch to an aluminum backplate and put the four pounds on a weight belt. Extend your legs, and run a little air in your dry suit and get it up in your shoulders and arms. Make SURE you have your head up.

All those things help, but I'm about 50 or 60 dives in doubles now, and I STILL can't balance in my 72s without going about 30 degrees out of trim. I have a set of LP 85s that are MUCH easier. The buoyancy characteristics are really similar, but the tanks distribute weight differently.

With regards to venting the drysuit -- It takes time to master that. You have to stay well ahead of the buoyancy curve (vent before you think you need to, and sometimes when you barely can squeak air out of the suit). And the Weezle does NOT make this easy. I dove one a few times when I was a fairly new diver, and there was no way I could cope with the buoyancy problems it created. It traps a lot of air, and takes time to move the air to where you can vent it. The instructor who lent it to me told me SHE had to stop and go vertical and wait to vent, even when teaching. I know there are people (Doc Intrepid among them) who love their Weezles, but I didn't.

yeah, that's basically what i'm dealing with in the weezle. what UG did u switch to?

 

[orange_diver]

The gaiters help "prevent" gas from getting to your feet, but they also slow the gas trying to get out of your feet. Try a dive without them, see how it works.

As others have said, do a whole bunch of dives!

yes, i noticed that on the last dive, especially since i also use weezle socks, as my astute dive buddy pointed out to me. once the air is there, it tends to stay there.

but without the gaiters i was a cork popping to the surface, so for now, i'm gonna stick with the gaiters. eventually they may come off...

 

[orange_diver]

I find LP Faber Double 95's short in length, even for me (5'7'', 155lbs).
Used to use gaiter wraps but found they were conducive to cramping in my calves. Solved the "head heavy" trim (especially on descent where it was so bad, that I would be rolling forward into a front flip upside down), by using a five pound steel BP and a five pound tail weight.

so did you switch to longer tanks or you still rock the 95s? i'm already using a SS BP and a 4lb tail weight, soon to be five on the next dive. i'm not convinced that 1lb will make the difference tho.

can you recommend another set of tanks other than the LP 85s? and you know how it is humping the tanks on laguna or redondo so tanks that aren't HEAVIER than the 95s would be great...

 

[loosebits]

Ok, gaiters restrict the size of the bubble in your legs but they won't keep the air out of your feet. I have a good fitting drysuit (at least in the legs), my problem is the feet are too big so I use "foot gaiters" aka fin keepers. Its a little $5 peice of rubber that fit over the top of the foot, under the the foot in front of the heel and behind the foot at the tendon. I wear them over my rock boots and they severly limit the amount of air that can get into my feet.

As far as the tanks, many people find 98's make them very head-heavy but a tail weight should be able to compensate. Unless you're rather short, 108's/130's may be a better fit.

From what I know of DIR, the appropriate answers to these issues is:

1) Get a better fitting drysuit.. don't add more gear to correct a problem with the original peice of gear.

2) Get some longer tanks (again, adding a tail weight is compensating for the shortness of the tanks).

Unfortunately we all can't afford the DIR answer.

Btw, you mention the tanks being up as much as possible.. do you mean the bands (bands up means tanks down)?? Unless I misread, you are head heavy, you want the tanks as low as possible but not so low that you can't reach the valves.

 

[cmufieldhockey8]

I got some advice to arch my back more with the doubles and it took care of the problem for me immediately!

 

[TSandM]

I dive the Diving Concepts 200g Thinsulate jumpsuit and the 200g Thinsulate vest, plus a layer of fleece under all that. I have buddies diving the DUI 400g Thinsulate UG and they're happy, but for me, the dratted thing would have to have been custom.

There's way less air-trapping with the Thinsulate, at least in my experience.

 

[dsteding]

I'd second the comments about getting used to things, but to answer your question re tanks:

Fabers (in my experience) are typically more head heavy than Worthingtons. I've dived double Faber 95s, double OMS 108s (same as faber 104s), PST 119s, and Worthington 100s and 119s. In singles, I've dived 95s, 130s, 119s, and a water heater Faber 120. I have a tank problem . . .

Of all of those, the Worthingtons are clearly the most butt heavy, as compared to the PSTs they put a pound of steel in the bottom of each tank. The Fabers are clearly the most top heavy. I tend to have the opposite problem you have and am feet-down, but even with the Worthingtons I am starting to be able to get things where I want them at times (I end up a bit knee-down, and need to remember to arch my back a fair amount to get things right). I have about 45 dives in doubles now, and I am starting to think trim has more to do with body positioning than gear configuration. Once you get the gear in the balllpark, you can use your body to get it the rest of the way.

Honestly, I'd say get used to the 95s. But, if you are looking for a sweet set of lighter tanks that may be more bottom-heavy, try out a set of Worthingon 100s. You mention shore diving, and for that purpose they are sweet (unless you need mad amounts of gas).

 

[orange_diver]

Ok, gaiters restrict the size of the bubble in your legs but they won't keep the air out of your feet. I have a good fitting drysuit (at least in the legs), my problem is the feet are too big so I use "foot gaiters" aka fin keepers. Its a little $5 peice of rubber that fit over the top of the foot, under the the foot in front of the heel and behind the foot at the tendon. I wear them over my rock boots and they severly limit the amount of air that can get into my feet.

As far as the tanks, many people find 98's make them very head-heavy but a tail weight should be able to compensate. Unless you're rather short, 108's/130's may be a better fit.

From what I know of DIR, the appropriate answers to these issues is:

1) Get a better fitting drysuit.. don't add more gear to correct a problem with the original peice of gear.

2) Get some longer tanks (again, adding a tail weight is compensating for the shortness of the tanks).

Unfortunately we all can't afford the DIR answer.

Btw, you mention the tanks being up as much as possible.. do you mean the bands (bands up means tanks down)?? Unless I misread, you are head heavy, you want the tanks as low as possible but not so low that you can't reach the valves.

thx for the advice.

i got my TLS custom fit, so the fit is good. not cave cut, but still much better than stock.

and my $5 fin keepers with my turbo soles are my favorite piece of gear when you factor in cost-to-value ratio!

and yes i meant bands high so tanks are low. also adjusted BP and wing for maximum lift at head.

gonna try some LP 85s next week i hope but also just dive my 95s more...