Trimix in 100 dives

[jtivat]

I get sick of reading post from people jumping all over divers who are asking about going tech just because they have low dive counts. You cannot tell what kind of diver someone is by their number of dives. The only way to tell is by diving with them!

While I would normally say yes 100 dives is not enough to go tech, there are people ready in much less. I did a dive this summer to 270' in 38F water in Lake Michigan with a buddy that I had taken Advanced Trimix with I did not know him before class. After the dive I found out this dive was only number 100! I would have never guessed this, as he is a very solid and good diver. His trim is dead on and kick is as good as any I have seen. We had one of the best Great Lakes instructors who was very hard on us (task loading the **** out of us) and he handled it all with very little trouble. I would dive with this guy over many tech divers I have seen with well over 500 dives.

So why is this the standard answer from so many people on this board?

I don’t believe this is the norm but if someone wants to get into tech diving who are you to tell them no on the intranet?? It is the instructor’s job to evaluate if they are ready!

 

[texdiveguy]

You are correct that everyone progresses at a differing rate. I have never applied a number of dives as a min. to try something new and different. It's much more important to have the skill and recognized training coupled with appropriate experience to move to the 'next' level of diving. Now having completed technical training through advanced trimix and gained post certf. experience in such......it is on the lean side for a diver with only 100 logged dives to be participating in that advanced level of training....but I was not there to dive with your dive buddy, you have to trust the instructor did a good pre-course evaluation of the student.

 

[SparticleBrane]

Why? Because the experience you suggest is certainly not the norm. It is the norm for many of the people I dive with (a friend I took a cave course with over this summer had maybe...60-70 dives?), but for most people, with today's poor instruction and low standards, people with poor-quality skills are the majority.

 

[Thalassamania]

But what went wrong on the dive? Nothing? That's great, but if it had I'd bet that you'd rather have a buddy with a few thousand dives and more than 100 dives at 270 on mix. No?

 

[PerroneFord]

Looking good in the water is not the same as BEING good in the water. And how a diver does during class has ZERO bearing to how people do when the **** hits the fan. I did a dive last year with a guy who has a couple dozen cave dives to his credit and a bunch of open water dives. When we got into a near death experience, he was as cool as could be and so was I. We got out of a bad scrape with little issue. THAT is the dive buddy I want.

I've done dives with people who have thousands of dives, I've done dives with divers who had a couple hundred and who moved very fast through the progressions. There IS a difference.

My question is, what the heck is the BIG hurry? I'm not gonna take a 16 year old with a new drivers license and give them a full powered race car to drive. So why would I take a new diver, give them a mix that will KILL them stone dead if they blow their buoyancy, and put them at 250ft?

jtivat, I don't know you're background, but I just lost a dive buddy 2 weeks ago who had this same "get there in a hurry" mentality. Maybe if you start losing your friends you'll understand why some of us "on the internet" try to discourage people from this kind of behavior.

 

[jtivat]

First I have seen real things thrown at this guy yes it was in training but he handled these things better than some others with many many more dives. He did not have to just swim nice and easy holding trim. There were many things done and often times multiple things done to us that you had to hold trim while fixing. After diving with him I had no reason to even think he had so few dives. I overheard him talking to another diver on the boat and was shocked. Our instructor is very hard on students to the point some hate him or just plain quit. This could be a whole other thread as I know many do not like this kind of training but I believe it works.

I never said people should hurry and push it, I am just saying don't push them away b/c they only have a few dives.

I also believe there is a big difference in the kind of dives you do. Learning and doing one hundred dives in cold dark water will prepare you much better for the dives I do than a thousand dives on a warm reef.

 

[jtivat]

But what went wrong on the dive? Nothing? That's great, but if it had I'd bet that you'd rather have a buddy with a few thousand dives and more than 100 dives at 270 on mix. No?

Maybe it all depends on what kind of dives the thousand dives were.

 

[The Brandon]

Nowadays people are even going to rebreather with less than 50 dives. I had one buddy here go straight from Basic OW cert to rebreather.

 

[PerroneFord]

First I have seen real things thrown at this guy yes it was in training but he handled these things better than some others with many many more dives. He did not have to just swim nice and easy holding trim. There were many things done and often times multiple things done to us that you had to hold trim while fixing. After diving with him I had no reason to even think he had so few dives. I overheard him talking to another diver on the boat and was shocked. Our instructor is very hard on students to the point some hate him or just plain quit. This could be a whole other thread as I know many do not like this kind of training but I believe it works.

Well, if you know anything about my training and instructors, you'll know this is how I get trained and what I prefer. But training is not the same. However, it's clear I am not going to change your mind on this issue, so that's cool.

I never said people should hurry and push it, I am just saying don't push them away b/c they only have a few dives.

We all need to get experience as we go along. I just think there should be a build up of progressively more challenging dives. And I'm sorry, but you'll never convince me that someone with 100 dives is ready to be on hypoxic. Ever.

I also believe there is a big difference in the kind of dives you do. Learning and doing one hundred dives in cold dark water will prepare you much better for the dives I do than a thousand dives on a warm reef.

This I agree with. I've done some dark, lo-vis dives (though not colder than 54F) and it is a vastly different experience.

 

[HowardE]

JT - I feel your pain... I also get weary of reading people jumping all over people for just about anything on the board. 100 Dives IMO is more than adequate for lots of training. It really depends on both the person who is being trained, and the trainer.

I constantly see many people on the board saying, "the quality of training has slipped to such low standards..." well I think that's a pretty lame response. All of my training has been top notch, and I've taken away a lot of knowledge from every course that I've done.

Like anything... You get out - what you put in. If the student doesn't care to learn anything, then they won't.

If a diver did have great ability, and understanding of the concepts of both decompression diving, and mixed gases, and the ability to maintain solidly their neutral buoyancy, then why couldn't a diver with less than 100 dives complete a Trimix course?

I guess one other thing is... If people are posting "should I take a class" on a public forum... well... it would seem that it's most likely probable that the person who is posting may have some reservations about the whole concept. With that being the case... then perhaps the caution is warranted.

Just some food for thought.