This has, once again, opened up the basic question of:
What is the goal of Basic Open Water Training instruction? And, more importantly, what is the goal of the Basic Open Water Student in taking the instruction?
Wth a minor shift in emphasis I think you are correct. But it should be less a matter of what the student's goal is and more a matter of what the instructor's goal is since the student really doesn't, except in very rate cases, know what is involved. What the real issue comes down to is the industry's stubborn demand to mix apples and oranges, people who want to dive with leadership personnel, once a year (or so) in a resort atmosphere, in almost perfect conditions, with people who want to learn to dive with minimum risk, just about anywhere they might live (or go). Perhaps we need to somewhat expand the DSD concept to cover all of the once a year resort diving and tropical referral training and return everything else to the 40 to sixty hour programs that it used to be.
One thing I am quite sure is that the goal of the Student is NOT to be one of Thal's highly trained research divers and thus his program is irrelevant in reality.
If we where to expand DSD/enhance the rest, then the difference between what I do (highly trained research divers) and what other instructors do (competent local temperate divers) becomes passing small, just as it was in the sixties and seventies.
It is also true that most "divers" are not "hard core" divers like the people who have responded to this thread. As Bob (NWGratefulDiver) pointed out, even IF the student had been carefully trained, they aren't in the water and they certainly don't practice skills when they do get in the water. And if they do practice some skill, such as air sharing, they are likely to be scolded by the DM at the resort! (Note -- This has actually happened to me and we were scolded for sharing air. An instructor who happened to be on the dive continued by saying that the ONLY possible response to sharing air was a direct ascent -- but that instructor also believes Gas Management is "Tech Sh%t" and thinks a long hose is going to strangle you!)
I can't imagine being scolded by DM at at a resort, I'd rip him a new one six ways from Sunday, and so should you.
I don't know what the possible solutions may be -- even Thal's training system will probably not be of much help to the recreational diver who hasn't been in the water for two (or more) years prior to his trip to Coz.
I beg to differ. I don't think that the training would "stick" at the level it would need to, but we design our exercises to also be used by divers to get themselves ready to dive again after a layoff. I have no concern that a pair of divers whom I trained would have any difficulty bringing themselves back up to speed with about four hours of pool time and a small number of shallow workup dives (that could be made, even in a resort environ). We discuss just that issue during class.
I don't think the real problem is the initial training -- it is the lack of continuous training and practice after the class is over.
I think the problem is initial training AND the lack or either continuous training and practice after the class OR a clearly defined system for resharpening rusty skills.
Free ascents or CESA (Controlled Emergency Swimming Ascent) dangerous? I suppose that is true if you are clueless about basic diving physics and physiology. I don't consider a free ascent bolting, more like a valuable skill that is far more reliable than swimming around looking for a buddy in bad visability.
A flared buoyant ascent is an integral component of the exercises we use. First in a free diving mode, and then in a series of scuba exercises. I sould guess that by the time we finish, each student has done it in a pool, in free diving mode twenty to thirty times and in a scuba mode (for real, requiring actual exhilaration experience) maybe twice as many times as well as about half that number of times in open water. We definitely do not consider it to be "bolting," but we also teach divers to remain close enough to their buddy to be prepared to intervene on their buddy's behalf if there is a problem, with means that they are never, "swimming around looking for a buddy in bad visibility."
I don't think the industry is coming anywhere near teaching the skills you suggest have been done for years...more and more over the last decade, divers have been turned out that have terrible propulsive abilities, often leading to ( or made worse by) pathetic split fins which drastically reduce muscle load on dangerously weak legs.....if we let them dive barefoot there would be even less strain....
Point is, the industry is trying to get the physically inadequate to feel good about diving. This is irresponsible. It is all about greed and market size.
I don't know about the physically inadequate, I've seen plenty of physically adequate students who still lacked the skills and training to be competent in the water.
I have gotten some of my cycling buddies to freedive over the years....fit people can pick up free diving well. Freediving IS achieving perfection of propulsion and watermanship as Thal often discusses. Most of these guys would decide to get into scuba sometime after becoming a good Freediver. Guess how they went through there scuba classes---typically on day one looking better in the water than some instructors. They go on to be great divers. They needed the s drills and gas management , etc, but this was extremely easy for them....maybe this was so easy because learning is more effective when the student is absolutely at ease....maybe it was so easy because with the huge foundation skills of free diving, everything else just makes sense, instantly.
Ain't that the truth!
I have always wondered why some agency does not try to offer a free diving module to come before basic open water scuba. Just imagine the difference to BOW if free diving mastery came first!!!
Of course, the industry would hate this idea, because a higher level of fitness would be required to master free diving, and they would actually have to teach propulsive skills.
Most agencies have such a course on the books, its just that almost nobody does this. It is amazing how easy it is to transition a competent freediver to scuba, it is almost effortless.
Peter,
I think the goal of Basic Open Water Training, should be to give a person the skills and knowledge, "to not kill themselves" on a 40 to 60 foot dive, by doing something stupid. It is not supposed to make them a GREAT Diver. But they do need the most important skills----guage reading/monitoring air supply.....s-drill air sharing.. mask off and on underwater.....peripherol awareness of buddy....don't do follow the leader diving....how to kick/propel yourself on scuba....how to find close to neutral with a BC at depth....and how to do a CESA. Lots of practice with the CESA...
Rather than than choosing to not teach OOA scenarios to the divers MOST LIKELY to run out of air, if anything, let these agencies with profit and expediency in mind, eliminate teaching anything of table or DCS knowledge beyond just showing them the NDL for 60 feet, 50 feet and 40 feet.
Or, maybe just simplify this....the basic underwater diver does NOT dive deeper than 60 feet, and NEVER dives longer than 40 minutes ( less to remember, less chance of OOA)....Someone like Cressi could make a cheap and simple gauge that shows depth and time, alarms like crazy if 61 feet or deeper is reached, and alarms like crazy at 40 minutes into any dive.....
The reality is, left to their own duration attempts, the new Basic Open Water Diver will run low on air long before they become saturated with nitrogen-- to the degree that this risk comes anywhere close to the risk of OOA. Let's have the instructors spend the time where it is really needed.
There is some sense to that, but I think that there may also be some sense to teaching that group I wrote about at the top of this post (people who want to dive with leadership personnel, once a year, or so, in a resort atmosphere, in almost perfect conditions,) to not go deeper than 60 feet, to not stay under more than 50 minutes, to not run out of air, to drop all the OOA protocols besides the use of a leaders auxiliary, and to not certify them to dive without leadership assistance.
