TONY CHANEY
Contributor
Again, it is not about the equipment. Anybody can buy equipment and that does not make them a technical diver. It is about proper planning, thinking, gas mixture, situation, conditions, mission, gas matching, etc.
Treat every dive like a tech dive
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Again, it is not about the equipment. Anybody can buy equipment and that does not make them a technical diver. It is about proper planning, thinking, gas mixture, situation, conditions, mission, gas matching, etc.
cool_hardware52
Contributor
Er, ah, humm. When exactly have I said it's only about equipment, or that anybody with a gold card can become a tech diver overnight?
My point stands, carrying more gear than the environment and team requires doesn't make you safer, it often has the reverse effect.
Tobin
TONY CHANEY
Contributor
The thread is about tech diving. Well, you really didn't say that it is only about equipment but mostly all you talked about was redundant equipment. I totally agree with you that too much equipment is overkill and causes more problems than it helps.
The technical diving curriculum I teach says that. Each diver in a team should consider himself or herself capable of completing the planned dive alone, as if on a solo dive. The team members supply, as Tobin said, an extra brain, as well as resources for an extreme emergency.
OK, thanks! I guess it's a question of degrees, what you consider an extreme emergency. Most of the stuff I see written about team diving refers to "my backup gas is on my buddy's back", etc..
I think that's more important in a cave setting? Not sure...
cool_hardware52
Contributor
An overhead is and overhead. Wet rocks or deco obligation, both make having enough gas vital.
Tobin
beachbummer28
Registered
This thread has given me great entertainment on a dreary, cold Sunday afternoon, so thanks for that lol 
.
I just want to throw in my two cents as a new diver who likes to people watch and observe (especially on dive boats!) - I think most regular divers are very curious, adventurous human beings who are usually of above-average intelligence. Sometimes this above-average intelligence mixed with a natural inclination to learn more / do more creates a perfect storm of what can only be described as earnest ignorance, which is both ironic and unfortunate. I think Bob was spot on when he kindly referenced the "50 dive expert" concept ... as new divers we're really eager to be "real" divers and feel comfortable in a niche sport, and sometimes especially eager new divers will overcompensate for this by completely talking out of their ass. I wish more new divers were comfortable saying, "I'm new and I don't know a lot yet" because hey, that's okay! More than okay, actually; it's expected.
My husband and I just went on our first diving vacation and we met and made friends with quite a few different divers, and all of them were open and receptive when we said we just got OW certified this past summer and were total newbies. In fact, they welcomed our questions and gave us a lot of good pointers that we may have not gotten if we had been too busy trying to prove that we knew more than the average beginner. A perfect example is this - it was our first boat dive, so when the DM told me to do a giant stride off the back of the boat I quickly said, "Sorry, I've never done this except into a pool in open water training ... can you walk me through how to do it again?" He had no problem with it, I did it just fine that first day and for the rest of the week, and everything was great. This was in stark contrast to the guy following me into the water who had all of his own, very expensive gear and an elitist air about him as a know-it-all diver who only wanted to talk to the DMs and experienced divers ... and who then proceeded to do clumsy belly flops into the water on every dive because he has apparently never mastered the giant stride. :shocked2: It became apparent throughout the week that he wasn't nearly as skilled as he talked himself up to be but he desperately wanted to be, and that's a recipe for, well, belly flops into the water! In all seriousness, he was a smart guy who had probably excelled in his OW class and had read all there is to read and yet he still didn't have the humility to say, "Can you help me figure out how to do a proper giant stride?" to anyone along the way. In fact, I have a suspicion that if someone had tried to correct him, he wouldn't have been too receptive ... which has been seen in this thread as well.
In short, the only way you get to know what you're talking about is to (1) dive more, (2) train more, and most importantly - (3) listen more.
. I just want to throw in my two cents as a new diver who likes to people watch and observe (especially on dive boats!) - I think most regular divers are very curious, adventurous human beings who are usually of above-average intelligence. Sometimes this above-average intelligence mixed with a natural inclination to learn more / do more creates a perfect storm of what can only be described as earnest ignorance, which is both ironic and unfortunate. I think Bob was spot on when he kindly referenced the "50 dive expert" concept ... as new divers we're really eager to be "real" divers and feel comfortable in a niche sport, and sometimes especially eager new divers will overcompensate for this by completely talking out of their ass. I wish more new divers were comfortable saying, "I'm new and I don't know a lot yet" because hey, that's okay! More than okay, actually; it's expected.
My husband and I just went on our first diving vacation and we met and made friends with quite a few different divers, and all of them were open and receptive when we said we just got OW certified this past summer and were total newbies. In fact, they welcomed our questions and gave us a lot of good pointers that we may have not gotten if we had been too busy trying to prove that we knew more than the average beginner. A perfect example is this - it was our first boat dive, so when the DM told me to do a giant stride off the back of the boat I quickly said, "Sorry, I've never done this except into a pool in open water training ... can you walk me through how to do it again?" He had no problem with it, I did it just fine that first day and for the rest of the week, and everything was great. This was in stark contrast to the guy following me into the water who had all of his own, very expensive gear and an elitist air about him as a know-it-all diver who only wanted to talk to the DMs and experienced divers ... and who then proceeded to do clumsy belly flops into the water on every dive because he has apparently never mastered the giant stride. :shocked2: It became apparent throughout the week that he wasn't nearly as skilled as he talked himself up to be but he desperately wanted to be, and that's a recipe for, well, belly flops into the water! In all seriousness, he was a smart guy who had probably excelled in his OW class and had read all there is to read and yet he still didn't have the humility to say, "Can you help me figure out how to do a proper giant stride?" to anyone along the way. In fact, I have a suspicion that if someone had tried to correct him, he wouldn't have been too receptive ... which has been seen in this thread as well.
In short, the only way you get to know what you're talking about is to (1) dive more, (2) train more, and most importantly - (3) listen more.
Bigd2722
Contributor
While I am willing to recognize the inconsistency in my statements regarding a spare mask, I do carry all the other equipment taught in solo dive classes. My gear is streamlined and does not represent any kind of burden. What would happen if you lost your buddy and didn't have spare air or an SMB? I suppose it comes down to your comfort level on the dive and with your team. I dive with people in whom I have the utmost confidence, yet I still carry all my gear except a spare mask. As far as the size of the SMB, that depends on the current and likely conditions of the dive.
Yeah, but the point is that there are different types of diving and different influential training organizations. GUE cave divers and northeast wreck divers both have safe diving practices, but there may be differences in the local cultures and their approach to planning.
The choice isn't enough gas vs. not enough gas, it's whether or not you consider your buddy's gas in your planning or ignore it. I ignore it. Nice to know it's there as plan C, but I'm still not going to plan a dive where buddy separation would significantly increase my risk.
Wet rocks and deco obligations. Understand how they are similar. But there is a difference. If it takes you 20 minutes to swim out from under the rocks then you better have 20 minutes of air. However with 20 minutes of deco and a shade under 20 minutes of air you could shave a few minutes off the deco and pray on the way up. You might make it out alive. Of course neither should happen but just pointing out that the rocks can be worse than the deco. Now blowing off a lot of deco that is different.
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