Trashing dive ops - my thoughts

[robint]

I am a bit disturbed by something that seems to be pretty rampant here on SB lately. It is the trashing of dive ops, some over tiny little issues, and some when the person has never even used the dive op! Come on folks, lets step back and think about all this. Not only is it bad form, it is also bad karma. :zen:

I have to admit, when I first started diving I got caught up in this trend with a group of other Coz divers. We bad mouthed several dive ops constantly, even though we never used them. Our preferred dive op was the best and these others were unsafe and rude and .... you name it. Well, it came back to bite me in the butt a few times, and I actually went diving with one of those dive ops that I had trashed and they turned out to be just fine. No, not my favorite, but not the "evil empire" I was making them out to be. I also was basing all my negative posts on rumors, things told to me second hand, nothing I could prove. As a NEW diver with very little experience with dive ops anywhere, I had nothing to base my opinions on, it was just me blabbering on when I should have kept my mouth shut. :chairfight:

Remember, ALL dive ops are trying to make a living and will sometimes make mistakes, but lets not blow them out of proportion. Rumors repeated over and over, especially here on the anonymous internet, can ruin a business.

so, just my 2 cents, but folks lets try to be informative here, not spiteful and negative.

robin

 

[jd950]

On the other hand, what may be minor to you or me may be a big deal to someone else, and I appreciate the negative information as well as the positive when I am making a decision as a consumer. There are plenty of cheerleaders and self promotion for various dive ops out there and sometimes it is good to hear the other side.

Positive or negative comments about a dive op from someone who never used them are pretty pointless.

 

[DandyDon]

Where did this come from....?

1: If you were bashing dive ops that you hadn't used, that's sad. Internet gossip happens, but damn.

2: I am not aware of a problem along these lines here?

So what is this really about...?​

 

[freedc]

As long as the reports are factual and based on actual experience, then it's probably ok. For example, I did a dive at SCUBA in St. Croix and the DM paid little attention to me, did not adjust my weights as he said he would do when we got in the water, and did not signal me down, just descended and eventually I realized I was the only one on the surface (he signaled from the bottom -- there was 80 ft viz). He also took us down to 80 ft (my first dive after OW) and disappeared at the end of the dive trip before I could get the dive data for my log.

But it's important to give the whole story. For example, in my case, there were huge swells and several other divers for him to get down. I had drifted away from the boat, and after the dive I myself wandered away (after tipping him) beacuse I was very disoriented from seasickness. When I went to the shop the next day they filled out my log book with just about all the info that was missing (minus the details that come from the computer). So the dive op was ok even if my DM was not exactly service oriented that day. I did the rest of my diving that week with other ops on the island and was quite happy with Cane Bay and N2theBlue. (I would be happy to give more details for anyone traveling to St. Croix).

So that kind of report is hopefully ok. "I heard that SCUBA ignores their newbies" is not.

 

[robint]

On the other hand, what may be minor to you or me may be a big deal to someone else, and I appreciate the negative information as well as the positive when I am making a decision as a consumer. There are plenty of cheerleaders and self promotion for various dive ops out there and sometimes it is good to hear the other side.

Positive or negative comments about a dive op from someone who never used them are pretty pointless.

I am not saying that negative comments aren't okay as long as they are based on fact and as long as they are given here as informative NOT vicious attacks on a dive op. My biggest issue is with those who insist on trashing dive ops they have never even used. But I also don't like when I see people demanding services that are irrational or just like it is done somewhere else, but not at that locale. When they don't get their way, they blow a gasket and post ugly trash here on SB.

here is an example:
Diver A sees a dive boat at a dive site with 15-20 divers on it. "Ewwww, look at that dive op, they are a cattle boat!" What he doesn't know is that is a group of friends who came down together and insisted on being on a boat together, even though it was crowded. But Diver A gets on SB and every time someone asks about that dive op, he replies "oh what a cattle boat!! Don't ever use them. They are unsafe because they have too many divers..."
or
Diver B books diving for a week with a dive op. He and buddy dive the first couple of days, then he has ear problems and cancels the rest of week and demands a refund. Is this fair? NO. The dive op is not responsible for his ear problems and did not have an opportunity to fill his spots for the remaining days for him or buddy, thus no refund should be due. Diver B gets on SB and rants about never using this dive op because they are money grubbing scum and ripped him off. Is that right? No.

the first example is just an example of the kind of thing I did many years ago. It was wrong and I admit to doing it. But I am see much WORSE here lately, on the Mexico Forum and other forums. It is silly and not helpful to those asking for your advice.

Rant off.

robin

 

[scubawife]

I don't think there's anything wrong with including negative comments or constructive criticism about a dive shop, hotel, restaurant or what ever else you want to review or talk about in your trip report. There is a difference between putting that all in the context of a well-rounded trip report and finding everywhere and anywhere you can to post rants, whines and complaints about a business or individual staff.

I can appreciate that everyone has different criteria and expectations, but just try and step back and put it in perspective before you start posting...

There are some places that you don't have a choice of what dive op to use. Cozumel isn't like that. If you aren't crazy about the shop you booked with then go out that afternoon or evening and find another one. (same goes for Playa). There's no shortage of choices and no reason to stick with one if it's either just not a good fit for you or you have personality conflicts.

The best way to avoid being disappointed is to be realistic. For example, don't expect a DM leading a group to have time to give you their undivided attention or hand hold you for the entire dive. If you need or want that, hire a private DM or instructor. And if your service standards are high then don't book your diving based on the cheapest price you can find.

Everyone on the boat with you paid for their trip and wants a great day. The biggest factor in how much you enjoy your day of diving or even the whole vacation, is you. Short of chartering your own boat for the duration, there's going to be some times that you need to suck it up and go with the flow.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Very well said scubawife. No further comment is necessary besides this. If the DM needs to plan your dive, adjust your weights, or fill out your logbook, you need more training.

 

[DandyDon]

Very well said scubawife. No further comment is necessary besides this. If the DM needs to plan your dive, adjust your weights, or fill out your logbook, you need more training.

It really is good for a newbie to hire a private DM, as well as observe how the group DM deals with the group.

 

[morecowbells]

It is hard watching a small business getting dragged through the mud, especially when your encouters have been positive. Unfortunately, that is the risk you take when dealing with the public. As long as the poster outlines and specifies their experience, I would rather read about the negative and decipher for myself if it is a dealbreaker or not. I am quick to disregard a public greivance from a person with only one post or who makes blanket statements like "whatever you do, never use this dive op".

Everybody has a different threshold of what is acceptable service. A few years ago in Maui someone on Tripadvisor posted their awful experience at a restaurant. They only got 10 pieces of shrimp in their pasta. They went table to table to find out other patrons had 12 pieces. They decided to picket(signs and all) the restaurant the following day. As obnoxious and outlandish(entertaining too!) as that post was I would rather read that than some post containing blatant cheerleading without much substance. I understand the frusturation with reading through slanerous and mean-spirited posts, however I would like to choose how to use or process the information for my purposes.

 

[billindenver]

I would have to agree with Don, a private DM certainly should be the extra help that a new diver is almost always in need of. Most dive ops I've been to in Coz recommend as much to their brand new clients and I've seen extra DM's in the boat for that purpose in all four ops I've tried. It is not expensive, something like $35 or $40 a day plus tip. In the grand scheme of things, well worth it if you typically don't dive in warm water, salt water in new wetsuits or whatever and need to sort weights etc. We hired one on our first trip and then this past trip I took a friend down who was brand new so we had Mateo of Aldora all to ourselves. Mateo had it sorted very quickly and I'm convinced that the extra attention of a DM such as that steepens up the learning curve quite a bit.

As for the original post, I think all info is useful, whether it is praise from someone who has done 1000 dives with one op and never been anywhere else for comparison or something less than praise from a reviewer who has used many. Both are useful to some degree in how I choose to spend my money. One bad review is not nearly as relevant as a trend..but then multiple good reviews from screen names that come in and post and then are never heard from again are also suspect in my eyes.

In the end, all info is good info...it is all in how you filter it. I can't say I've seen any sort of trend in here where anyone has negatively reviewed a business they have not dove with, though I don't read every thread by any means. Has this really been a problem?