Transition to BP/W

[tbone1004]

the only thing that im really trying to figure out (guess) is what my weighting needs will be. so i can comfortably order pockets to hold my needed amount of weight. on average, what would you say the weight characteristics would be between a jacket bcd going to a bpw with the 6 lbs ss plate? i need my stuff to get here so i can get in my pool and figure some stuff out

unless you have a LOT of bioprene, you should not need any lead in the ocean with a HP steel tank and SS backplate. That should hold true up to 7mm steamers in the salty stuff. With a 3mm suit, you should definitely not need any lead

 

[stuartv]

Currently my setup is an aqualung pro hd. I tend to dive with a 3mil suit, steel 117's, and 10lbs of lead in saltwater. I decided I wanted to switch over to the BPW setup.
So far what I have coming to me is a halcyon SS plate and harness and a dive rite rec wing. Im looking for advice on how to proceed from here, particularly on weight placement/pouches/integration so forth.

I use the DR Rec EXP wing with my double steel HP120s. SS BP in cold water (dry suit) and Kydex BP in warm water (3mm wetsuit). I don't use any weight with the 3mm suit and Kydex BP (and doubles). That wing is great with 7.25" tanks. If your tanks are 8", then it might not be so great when you double them up. 8" tanks are wider and might pinch the wing a little bit, preventing it from achieving its full inflation, thus reducing maximum lift.

I have also used my SS BP with a 3mm suit and single HP120, in salt water. Again, no weight needed.

The trim weight pockets that @Doby45 posted are really nice. I had some of the XS Scuba ones and did not like how big they were. The DGX ones are just the right size, to me. I posted pictures of the DGX ones recently, with some 1 # weights for reference. You can search for posts from me to find them, if you're interested. I have them on one of my tank straps on my single tank rig - but I haven't actually used them yet as I've had no need.

I do not and would not use the Rec wing for single tank diving. I always thought it was too wide for that. I was recently in the pool with another guy who happened to be using a DR Transpac XT (I think that's the right name - a Trans-something XT, anyway) with a Rec XT wing (same as Rec EXP, except with SuperFabric on the back/top side), and a single steel HP100. The wing just looked WAY too wide. Even though he only needed a little bit of air in it, it tacoed up around both sides of the tank almost to the top of the tank. I will say, though, that he is an experienced diver and he says he loves that rig.

I use a Hog 23# wing for warm water and a single tank and I love it. I got it on sale for less than the price of the DGX single tank wing. If I had not, I would have gotten the DGX wing. It's $199, new. It's 25# lift and, supposedly, is identical to the Dive Rite Travel EXP wing, just with a different label on it.

If you are going to use your BPW for single tank, you'll need tank straps. I have used regular cam bands, Highland quick release tank straps, and ScubaPro-style quick release tank straps. I LOVE the SP-style over all others. Mine were $20 each from DGX.

DGX Tank Strap, Quick Release with S/S Hinge Buckle

My single tank BP is a DSS, so it came with 2 cam band tension pads.

Cam Strap Tension Pads, one pair universal scuba

I use them and I think they are a worthy investment. They go inside the spine channel of the BP.

 

[cool_hardware52]

My single tank BP is a DSS, so it came with 2 cam band tension pads.

No, DSS single rigs include a pair of "Wedge Blocks"

Cam Strap Tension Pads, one pair universal scuba

Cam Strap Tension Pads are not wedge blocks, Camstrap Tension pads are a "universal" application pad for almost any BC that uses cam bands. Camband Tension pads deliver most, but not all of the benefits Wedge Blocks.

I use them and I think they are a worthy investment. They go inside the spine channel of the BP.

DSS wedge blocks are specific to DSS back plates. Wedge blocks require a back plate with a specifically shaped center channel, and specifically located camband slots to function properly. For example if a back plate has a deeper or wider center channel a DSS wedge block would "float" in the center channel, and not compress.

For this reason DSS no longer offers the wedge blocks on our website. Divers would demand we sell them for use with other plates, and then be upset when they didn't work with their non DSS plates.........

Tobin

 

[Skulmoski]

Consider doing a trim experiment....

You figure out how much weight you need to achieve neutral buoyancy first. Then you start distributing the weight until you get the trim you are looking for. For example, you might hold 1 lb in each hand and keep the weight close to your collar bones. Move the weight in your hands until you get the trim you desire. You may need a buddy to help you out if you use trim weight pockets and you need to move them around your rig. This is a somewhat involved process but you will get good trim.

This is better described in Steve Lewis' book: "Six Skills and Other Discussions: Creative Solutions for Technical Divers."

Good luck

GJS

 

[GlennL]

I appreciate all the info here it's a lot to figure out. So I'm going to roatan in a few weeks (not with the SB crowd though). I'm assuming y'all are telling me that the rec wing would be a no go when diving with the rented al singles.
Since I don't know much about wings yet, I thought that with the rec wing tightening the bungees and using the "taco tabs" made the wing suitable for single tank? I have four weeks to figure this out. If it is really necessary, I would rather buy another wing vs ruin the trip. With my inexperience it's hard to weed through nessecity and personal preferences, especially with mixed reviews

 

[Lorenzoid]

I appreciate all the info here it's a lot to figure out. So I'm going to roatan in a few weeks (not with the SB crowd though). . . .

Whatever you decide, if you've got new equipment, practice with it before going to Roatan. I may be an extreme case of ineptitude, but when I did the "transition to BP/W" it took me many dives before I was comfortable with it. Others say they took to it like a fish to water.

 

[stuartv]

I appreciate all the info here it's a lot to figure out. So I'm going to roatan in a few weeks (not with the SB crowd though). I'm assuming y'all are telling me that the rec wing would be a no go when diving with the rented al singles.
Since I don't know much about wings yet, I thought that with the rec wing tightening the bungees and using the "taco tabs" made the wing suitable for single tank? I have four weeks to figure this out. If it is really necessary, I would rather buy another wing vs ruin the trip. With my inexperience it's hard to weed through nessecity and personal preferences, especially with mixed reviews

My personal opinion: Using the Rec wing will not ruin your trip. Even with no bungee on it. It's just not ideal.

There are some purists on this board who, I think, have gotten so much experience with really optimized gear that they have kind of forgotten what it's like to be relatively inexperienced where almost anything is new and perfectly adequate to yield a very enjoyable overall experience.

I myself have surely been guilty of making it sound like my BP with a 23# wing is SO much better than, say, a BP with a 30# wing, and that an integrated BCD with a 40# air cell is just beyond the pale of unacceptable. In reality, you can have perfectly nice dives with an integrated BCD and a 40# air cell and a BP with a 23# is just a little bit nicer. Some people probably wouldn't even notice an improvement in drag or streamlining between the two. I think a BP with a DR Rec wing is not the optimum configuration for single tank diving, but I also don't think it will have any real negative effect on your diving. Like I said before, a guy I know is very experienced and he loves his single tank rig with the Rec wing.

You might even be glad, later, to get some experience with the Rec and single tank. If you get a smaller wing later, you will (hopefully) actually be able to feel and appreciate the difference. Who knows though, maybe you'll even try it and decide the smaller wing makes so little difference that you don't care and don't want to be bothered keeping up with 2 separate wings when you can do everything you want with just one.

 

[stuartv]

Whatever you decide, if you've got new equipment, practice with it before going to Roatan. I may be an extreme case of ineptitude, but when I did the "transition to BP/W" it took me many dives before I was comfortable with it. Others say they took to it like a fish to water.

I'm pretty sure that's the case... LOL

I bought my first BP/W immediately after finishing my OW cert.

This is me on my 5th dive after finishing OW, in the Dos Ojos cenote in Mexico. I thought the BP/W (after using a jacket and a back inflate BCD in OW class) felt perfectly natural. Shortly after, I also switched to 40" long hose primary with bungeed alternate. I'm still diving that BP (but not wing), wetsuit, fins, and regs. Thank you, SB, for steering me to good first gear purchases!

As a total side note, that was 2 1/2 years ago. The guy that took the picture was someone I met there, on that trip, from England. Now, he's an advanced trimix CCR diver and I'm a helitrox diver, and he's coming over in 2 weeks for us to go dive the Oriskany and then a week of NC wrecks. Scuba is so cool!

 

[cool_hardware52]

I appreciate all the info here it's a lot to figure out. So I'm going to roatan in a few weeks (not with the SB crowd though). I'm assuming y'all are telling me that the rec wing would be a no go when diving with the rented al singles.
Since I don't know much about wings yet, I thought that with the rec wing tightening the bungees and using the "taco tabs" made the wing suitable for single tank? I have four weeks to figure this out. If it is really necessary, I would rather buy another wing vs ruin the trip. With my inexperience it's hard to weed through nessecity and personal preferences, especially with mixed reviews

The reason most divers are attracted to a BP&W is a desire for a simple, streamlined, better performing BC. A mistake I (hopefully) help many divers avoid is configuring their first BP&W in ways that defeat some of the advantages they are seeking.

In no particular order I routinely see divers:

1) Trying to cover waaay to broad a range of applications with one wing. "If I buy the jumbo redundant bladder wing I'll be able to use it all the way to big steel doubles, right?" Sure if you don't mind loosing most of gains of a BP&W.

2) "Can I add pockets, and pads, quick releases like my jacket had?" Resist the temptation to turn a clean BP&W *back* into the BC you are trying to leave behind.

3) Can I mix and match a wing from one maker, a plate from another and a comfo, double delux, zippy harness from a 3rd brand, I got a smoking deal on ebay!"

It is entirely possible to mix and match, *most* of the time. I use the analogy of buying a PC. One can buy a tower, motherboard, video card, sound card, power supply, various drives, controllers etc. and build a killer machine, but newbies are almost always better off in terms of both ease of use, and cost to buy a built, ready to run package. This also makes trouble shooting easier.

Will the "wrong" wing spoil your vacay? Probably not, but your approach adds a bunch of easily avoided variables.

Good luck,

Tobin

 

[dmaziuk]

the only thing that im really trying to figure out (guess) is what my weighting needs will be. so i can comfortably order pockets to hold my needed amount of weight. on average, what would you say the weight characteristics would be between a jacket bcd going to a bpw with the 6 lbs ss plate? i need my stuff to get here so i can get in my pool and figure some stuff out

You'll probably only need a couple of pounds in trim pocket(s) in salt water and none in the pool. For me Roatan was unexpectedly "floaty", you may end up with 2x3 trim weights. At least on the first dive when everything is new, dry, and unfamiliar. 2x2 more likely, as @RainPilot suggested. The DGX pockets are just right for 4lb hard weights and not so right for 4lb soft pouches. They should be good for what you'll likely use.