To touch or not to touch?

[MauiScubaSteve]

This argument that touching things is causing creatures harm because it removes the animals slime coat is debatable, IMHO. If that were the case, wouldn't they refrain from touching you? I've been buzzed by both mantas and eagle rays. Stuff down there regularly touches each other and the surfaces below. Doesn't that also remove their slime layer?

Does anyone have any data to prove or disprove the harm in touching?

Lefty, Nov. '04​

During the early days, some divers would reach up and pet the passing mantas. As the number of divers increased, petting increased. In 1992, the first year that the dive gained popularity, we began noticing pink patches on the undersides of the mantas. Our search for manta information led us to the Waikiki Aquarium where one of their marine scientists informed us that many sea creatures have a thin coating of protective mucous on their skin and this mucous can be rubbed off. Because the diver’s underwater light attracted a dense cloud of food, the mantas would come very close to individual divers to optimize their feeding opportunity. Back then, most mantas would endure some contact by the divers to get at the concentrated food source. Each manta seemed to have its own tolerance level for the amount of human touching they would endure. Some mantas left after the first touch. Most mantas tolerated some touching and then would leave. One named Lefty endured petting more than most.

Lefty was the first manta ray we ever got to know. She was easy to identify from the others because of her broken left cephalic fin. The fin hangs unfurled and limp and often times it blocks half of her mouth forcing the flow of water and food away. Consequently, we consider her ‘feeding challenged.’ Because of this, we believe Lefty stayed and fed in the abundance of food provided by the divers even though she was rubbed repeatedly. Sensing a need to protect Lefty and the other mantas, respected people from the dive community came together and produced a set of conservation guidelines for the Kona Manta Ray Night Dive.
Originally drafted by The Ocean Recreation Council of Hawaii and PADI’s Project AWARE (Aquatic World Awareness, Responsibility, and Education), the following updated version of these guidelines are set forth for all divers on the Kona Manta Ray Night Dive.

GUIDELINES FOR YOUR MANTA RAY ENCOUNTER​

1. OBSERVE ONLY: No touching. Resist the urge to "pet" the mantas. This will rub off their protective mucus coating. Do not chase, grab, or try to take a ride on the mantas. This doesn’t benefit the animal in anyway.

2. DIVER POSITION: Divers please stay on or near the sand, rubble or boulder bottom. An open water column is necessary for the mantas to maneuver. Avoid contact with coral, sea urchins, or other marine life. Form a semi-circle with your group.

3. SNORKELER POSITION: Snorkelers please stay on the surface. Do not dive down into the water column where the mantas are feeding.

4. LIGHTS: Divers please shine lights up into the water column to attract plankton. Snorkelers please shine lights down.

5. BUBBLES: Divers please avoid exhaling bubbles directly into the manta’s face.

6. TAKING PHOTOS or VIDEO: Photographers and videographers please be considerate of others. Adhere to these guidelines and let the mantas come to you.

Dive operators enforced these guidelines with their dive groups immediately and soon Lefty’s pink patches healed. Over a decade later, she is as healthy as ever and one of the most consistent dinner guests on the Kona Manta Ray Night Dive.

 

[Saltwater Junky]

Thanks for the linked articles seaducer.

Do mantas and rays have a protective covering on their skin?

I located a link Florida Laws (click and scroll down)that posted Florida laws regarding the harvesting of marine life. It contains a long list of restricted species. The next question is if certain marine life is restricted from harvesting should we then touch it, if our contact has the possibility of harm to the creature?

Here is an abstract from the USDA:

ARS | Publication request: OVERVIEW OF THE IMMUNE SYSTEM OF FISH

Here is one part:


And while it may not be the most authoratative, the following is pretty standard fare from aquarium publications, from your kid's 3 gallon tank up to aquariums that people visit.

From Fish Slime Coat

And the relevant part:

[/LEFT]

 

[MeiLing]

Lefty, Nov. '04​

I've read this before. However, in the days of the Kona Surf, all the mantas used to go in very near shore scraping themselves against the rocks in order to get the plankton that gathered near shore.

Just because one event follows another, doesn't mean it was the cause of the first event.

Perhaps Lefty went cruising somewhere that had a high Staph count, while his body was scraped up from the rocks and that was the cause. Or for some reason his immune system was compromised for other reasons. Without empirical evidence, the cause is really just a guess!

 

[highdesert]

What the words say ...

I'll touch when I like, but I usually know what the outcome will be before so that I can stay clear of the pain of a protein based poison.

What my mind hears ...

"I steer clear of anything that could hurt me, but I don't mind handling things that I might be hurting."

 

[mjh]

halemano, IMHO moving, prodding, handling a creature to get a picture is not necessary unless you are confident it is some rare, previously unknown species and you need to get a good ID shot.

As far as spear fisherman, line fisherman, commercial fishing that really is a whole other subject.

I assume you like the creature so why hassle it for a photo to show to friends and family. To me part of the challenge of nature photography is being at the right place at the right time. Great photos are not always pure luck often they are the result of research and a lot of patience which makes the photo more special. Otherwise just study up on Photoshop and leave the subjects alone.

 

[on_two_wheels]

I think I'm middle of the road on this one. I'll never be one to "harass" or poke/prod at anything. Letting a floating nudi land on my glove for a minute or two of observation doesn't concern me.

Here's the big question....if I catch and consume lobsters, is that more/less harmful to the ecosystem than touching things? If so, why? Please support. This isn't sarcasm. I'm always interested in other views and being educated, by educated people; not just opinionated. Additionally, where's the list of things that is okay to touch, such as lobsters? I had another diver show me the underside of a lobster bearing eggs. One of the most interesting things I've seen so far and it didn't concern me a bit. If anything, it gave me more appreciation of the legal seasons.

While I'm at it, I'm hoping to knock out rescue class soon so that I'll qualify for a local kelp restoration group.

 

[seaducer]

This is a problem I see with many of the far left reef huggers (and tree huggers).

Lets keep this about facts and opinions and leave the ad hominims and names out, shall we? I am neither BTW. I only wish people would think about their impact a bit more, and make more responsible decisions.

At any popular dive site humans are part of the balance.

And many of them show signs of human presence. If we go in with the idea that it is open season, or that we shouldn't try to educate others as it is none of our buisness, the nicer reefs we enjoy today won't stay that way. OTOH if we approach the reef and it's inhabitants with respect and remain mostly passive observers, we will have great diving.

Most of the reefs I dive are also open to hunters. If I mess with an octopus or lobster to get a picture, it usually hides better when I'm done. If I just take natural pictures, the spear-o watching me can easily take my subject after I leave.

So what you are saying is that by "messing" with things, you are protecting them, but by leaving them alone, you are signing their death warrant? Maybe you want to retract this?

Why is it more accepted to kill and eat over just scaring and photographing?

We weren't discussing hunting, lets try to stay on point and not distract.

 

[Zieg]

I think zoos and aquariums serve an essential role in research and education. While initially zoos and aquariums might have exploited animals and fish; I believe that most modern zoos play an important part in the preservation of endangered species.

Most aquariums I've seen are stocked with common fish - ones which are abundant, and not endangered. While I don't enjoy seeing manta ray and whale sharks in pools - unless there is a need due to injury; the rest of the fish don't bother me.

We can learn alot about animal and fish behavior, nutrition, disease from confinement in aquariums and zoos. Some of these will directly or indirectly improve the habitat and environment of wildlife. Most aquariums I've seen try to educate the public about reef preservation (with the exception of the one at Atlantis casino - Paradise island, Nassau). From this alone, I think their existence is justified.

I think you may have misunderstood the point I tried to make. I love aquariums and I believe that they serve a social good. It just seems funny to me that someone who was so concerned about stressing the creatures in the wild would cite links about how much aquariums can stress fish.

 

[on_two_wheels]

We weren't discussing hunting, lets try to stay on point and not distract.

Seaducer, you have to accept in any mature discussion, if you present a viewpoint, others may offer a different view. Less mature discussions would call it a counter arguement. To simply say, "we weren't talking about that" comes off as a cop out. Please, address this question. If touching anything is harmful, wouldn't removing anything from the ocean be equally harmful? If not, why not?

 

[seaducer]

I think I'm middle of the road on this one. I'll never be one to "harass" or poke/prod at anything. Letting a floating nudi land on my glove for a minute or two of observation doesn't concern me.

Doesn't concern me either. However pulling a nudi out, looking at it and then letting it float down would. Placing you hand on the sand hoping a shrimp climbs on you is ok, grabbing one adn pulling it out of the hole, not so good. Flushing a flounder or ray, bad news, rolling over a rock to see the octopus, bad. Breaking a seafan to get a shot of the seahorse

Here's the big question....if I catch and consume lobsters, is that more/less harmful to the ecosystem than touching things? If so, why? Please support.

That depends, like all things, on many factors. How many divers frequent that area for hunting? You personally may not cause a problem, but collectively the masses do. If you destroy hiding holes and such trying to get them, you are damaging the ecosystem. Just taking a lobster or fish or two, you are then part of the food web.

We need to assess the total impact we have, and not overfish a species or local, and make sure our methods are responsible. An example of this is occuring in the lobster fishery right now. Mature females get part of their flippers cut, called V-notching, to help fishermen ID them. Sounds harmless right? Well this V-notching is creating an entry point for a bacteria that causes problems with loster's shell. In order to get rid of the problem lobsters molt. Not only does this take energy, but it leaves the lobster vulnerable as the new shell is soft and takes some time to harden up. If lobsters have to molt more than normal it can have an impact on the population. In addition, a female with an egg mass loses the eggs if she molts.

Why bring that up? Because grabbing a lobster, pulling it out through a coral hole to get a look or picture can damage the lobsters carapace and introduce disease, and if it is a female you may impact the next generation without knowing or meaning to.

Additionally, where's the list of things that is okay to touch, such as lobsters? I had another diver show me the underside of a lobster bearing eggs. One of the most interesting things I've seen so far and it didn't concern me a bit. If anything, it gave me more appreciation of the legal seasons.

I don't know of any list personally. See my above comment, I am not sure I would put lobsters on such a list. Yes, there are tons of interesting things out there. I am glad you found a new respect for lobsters, and hope that you do not make a habit out of handling them.

Knowledge and respect come to us from strange places sometimes. As a kid I used to disect the "trash fish" my father caught on the beach. It taught me alot about fish, and sparked a life long love affair with the ocean. I have in the past handled wildlife to show people things in the hopes of gaining their respect for such creatures.

I was a big fan of Steve Irwin, even though he was a major harrasser of wildlife, but he did so in order to share those animals with people and in the process helped raise awareness and save thousands of critters. but that was one man with a noble purpose, not a bunch of people doing the same thing without concern, for their amusement.

Maybe I come accross as an extremist, but I am not. I simply advocate awareness, know what you are doing, how it impacts, and try to reduce it.