To touch or not to touch?

[Guba]

Bonaire is 90% unsupervised, and it is faring quite well.

I think it has more to do with the culture of the divers than any legislation or regulation; but that's my personal beliefs speaking, not anything I can really back up.

Oh, I agree with you, BigCountry, concerning the idea of dive culture over regulation. Bonaire, I believe (though I don't have any data to back it) seems to attract more serious divers, just as I noted about the FG in an earlier post. These areas are far enough removed that it takes someone a bit more serious (and usually more experienced) to seek out the dive experiences there. Much of the damage found in some areas, like several sites off the Florida coast, is caused by a huge volume of relatively inexperienced divers who, for one reason or another, can't seem to avoid contact with the reefs.

And that's the reason we're all discussing it here on SB...we are, in effect, helping to shape the "dive culture" to which we are referring. Hence, statements that we should all "keep our opinions to ourselves" thwart the very intent of forums such as this one. It's a friendly discussion...not the imposition of rules designed to police behavior. In the process, hopefully we'll all find a few revelations.

 

[on_two_wheels]

It's already been said but I agree, touching doesn't ALWAYS harm things. They're protective film, coating, etc would just as easily rub off on the sand or reef. That said, I do realize that my bare hands have a natural oil to them. Since I don't know how THAT would affect anything, I never touch without gloves.

My earlier point was merely that had humans always had the "never touch" mentality, we wouldn't know anything about wildlife. All the "never touch" crowd must really hate lobster season!! Make sure you never eat seafood because you might just be eating something another sea creature needed to survive. Like it or not, there IS a balance. Some things can be touched safely, some things should never be touched. Once that is accepted, everyone can go back to getting along. And did someone do a psychological evaluation on the nudi I held once? He showed no signs of stress but I'm not a psychologist.

 

[seaducer]

Make sure you never eat seafood because you might just be eating something another sea creature needed to survive.

I love it when people go to the furthest extreme in a debate in order to try and make a point.

Like it or not, there IS a balance.

Correct. We as divers are not part of that balance and should endeavor to remain passive when at all possible. Exceptions to that should be absorbed by the ecosystem, but when that exception becomes the rule we tip the balance in ways that are many times surprising. In a bad way.

Some things can be touched safely, some things should never be touched.

True, but what many people want to touch is not in the safe catagory.

Once that is accepted, everyone can go back to getting along.

I wasn't aware we were fighting?

And did someone do a psychological evaluation on the nudi I held once? He showed no signs of stress but I'm not a psychologist.

I am sure it left thinking how blessed it was to have met you. RIght before the predator snatched him up...

 

[Teamcasa]

I generally follow the no-touch tenet but like most rules, there are exceptions.
I don’t want to harass, harm or agitate the marine life simply for my amusement. However, there are countless situations where touching, pushing or moving something is important and sometimes even necessary.

Let us not kid ourselves, divers do touch. I doubt there is a diver alive that has not used the one finger push off in order to avoid collision into something larger. Who’s to say what damage was done by squashing the microscopic life under your massive finger? Who among us has not left a wake of billowing sand as you follow a critter a little too close, snapped of some kelp that entangled your fin or some other violation of the no-touch rule.

Is it good practice to go around grabbing everything in sight, no. We as divers should be good stewards of the environment we dive in and we should do what we can to protect it, but the occasional touch is inevitable.

 

[Walter]

I love it when people go to the furthest extreme in a debate in order to try and make a point.

I know what you mean. An excellent example is:

So should I read this to say we can do whatever we want, as long as other people are doing worse?

 

[b1gcountry]

All the "never touch" crowd must really hate lobster season!! Make sure you never eat seafood because you might just be eating something another sea creature needed to survive. Like it or not, there IS a balance.

I'm not saying people like this don't exist, but personally, I see a huge difference between sightseeing and hunting. I might go out in the woods and hunt squirrel, but I'm not going to go molesting the same squirrel if I was just hiking. I see a big difference between grabbing a lobster so you can have dinner and grabbing a lobster just for the heck of it. To me, the guy who manhandles a lobster and puts it back is worse than the guy who bags it and eats it.

Tom

 

[seaducer]

I know what you mean. An excellent example is:

Not at all. It is very common for people to justify their behavior or beliefs by pointing out a greater influence. I was curious to see if this was the point to your statement.

If it isn't then I question the relevance to the discussion at hand, being whether or not handling reef critters is harmful to them.

 

[Walter]

It is very common for people to justify their behavior or beliefs by pointing out a greater influence. I was curious to see if this was the point to your statement.

I wasn't doing that. I don't harm things when touching them unless I'm taking them for food, of course. I was referring to this silly statement:

One has only to look around at sites where divers are unsupervised (all groups to the sanctuary in Coz must be accompanied by a DM, and the FG usually attracts more experienced divers) to see how poorly some coral ecosystems are faring due to contact.

 

[GA Under Water]

Anyone in here ever Frac-ed a Coral? It is truely amazing how resilient Marine animals and plants are if their WATER, TEMP and LIGHT are kept in range for them. And touching doesn't cause the 2 degrees water temp change that is causing the Corals to bleach and Die.

E.G. My Old Coral tank I would grab Live Rock with a Green leather take a razor and cut peices off and epoxy them to another rock to have more Corals in the tank. Mushrooms the same thing. Green and Brown Star polyps, just scrape them off the Glass and place them where you like. As long as the Temp was steady, Salinity was on the mark and you had the right amount of light they would grow. Not to mention the rest of the underworkings in the Sump but that is to mimic the runnings of the ocean.

I'll touch when I like, but I usually know what the outcome will be before so that I can stay clear of the pain of a protein based poison.

 

[seaducer]

Does anyone have any data to prove or disprove the harm in touching?

Wow! Things are getting heated especially when feelings of repressed rights are brought up. I'll keep watching the banter. The forums are more entertaing than TV.

Here is an abstract from the USDA:

ARS | Publication request: OVERVIEW OF THE IMMUNE SYSTEM OF FISH

Here is one part:

Fish have a unique physical barrier (mucus and skin) that acts as the first line of defense against foreign agents. The mucus and skin contain immuno-reactive molecules (i.e., lysozyme, complement and immunoglobulin). Early research suggested that the immunoglobulin (Ig) in the skin/mucus was non-specific in nature. However, recently specific antibody to parasites and bacteria were demonstrated in mucus.

And while it may not be the most authoratative, the following is pretty standard fare from aquarium publications, from your kid's 3 gallon tank up to aquariums that people visit.

From Fish Slime Coat

And the relevant part:

When a fish is netted, handled or even at times when placed in a stressful situation, such as low oxygen, high carbon dioxide or temperature fluctuations, the slime coating is disturbed, making the fish vulnerable to disease, such as bacterial, fungal and parasitic diseases...

Stress is the number one cause of a deteriorated slime coat.​

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