To those considering an OW class...

[MikeFerrara]

"Maybe your expactations are just to low. The stated objective of the course is to leave you qualified to independantly plan and conduct opwn water dives."

You make alot of since alot of the time Mike but sometimes I think you forget the part about "to your level of training and experience" that the "independantly" refers to.

I intentionally left out the part about...in conditions as good or better than those in which you were trained.

Should training be more through? Yes!!!
Should Bad/Lazy Instructors be burnt at the stake? Yes!!!!
Should the training agency's do more to make sure what needs to be covered in a OW class is? Yes!!!!!
Should CD's/SI's train new Inst better?? Well the few Inst level classes I sat thru/helped teach seemed to cover pretty much everything it took to pass a class and then some. But they they were put on by IDC centers that were more concerned about teaching safty than the $$$$$$$$$.
That said I did get to see some pretty poorly trained DM/IDC canidates come thru that we had to spend some time bringing up to speed.

I have even talked to PADI about why is there not "Mystery students" (staff level Inst.) that take classes to make sure what is supposed to be covered is.

I don't think anyone should be burned that stake but I do think the agencies have an awful lot to think about.

 

[Gombessa]

I have even talked to PADI about why is there not "Mystery students" (staff level Inst.) that take classes to make sure what is supposed to be covered is.

My guess is it would be a bit too deceptive, since you'd need experienced scuba divers to appraise beginner courses. Mystery shoppers are different because people have a number of reasons to buy most products or services.

Maybe there should just be occasional spot-auditing, where an agency rep openly attends a class every now and then to see the format/conditions/etc.

 

[Dive-aholic]

The mystery student thing should be left to the LDSs. They contract with the instructors. They need to police them. Unfortunately most don't. The shop I used to work with kept a bad instructor (not teaching skills required by standards, shortening CW time, and sexual harassment) because he spends a lot of money on gear there every year. I'm not sure what PADI did with the complaint I sent them about what I saw, but I do know he's still teaching.

 

[DarthWader]

Loosebits, as a newbie diver, I applaud that well stated tirade. I haven't had my c-card a full year yet, and definately feel under-prepared, but I didn't feel cheated by my instructor, as I thought all dive classes were that abreviated. Though I recieved a fair amount of pool and open water time, the training wasn't even close to what you recommend. Consequently, I've dedicated this coming summer to just getting my basic skills under control (still having boyancy issues), and maybe, by the autumn I'll be better positioned for my next step.

 

[Tonio Anastasi]

The OW course I'm taking is 3 days long. 7 hours pool and 10 hour classroom. I hope it's long enough.[/quot
beach89.
Yes.
It is enough
If. and it a big IF, you remember that on the course you are learning the basics of scuba diving....
That
What your certification card is saying is "welcome to the scuba diving community, we are now giving you liecence to learn about scuba diving. To gain experience. To learn to walk before you run, and to do so by at least for your first few dives do so under the guidance of a diving instructor or Dive Master.
That
you should NEVER be embarssed to say I do not know!
I do not understand!
Sorry but this dive is not for me. I think I'll sit this one out.
That.
Your diver training is not over. It is about to start now with each and every dive you wiill do from now on till the very last dive when you decide that you are getting too old for it.
That
Gaining knowledge through continued education, will only enhance your skills and safety.
That
You only gain experience about diving by actually diving.
Diving is amongst the safest sport that you are likely to practice.
Statistics into the 10 most dangerous sports Scuba diving did not register there. That is why.. some Insurance companies do not consider recriational scuba divers as a risk.
That
Finally it is all about fun. Not thrill seeking, or machoism, or who pisses farther.
Over the years, as you dive and gain more experience, there will be many thrills in you memories, from the first fish you will eyball on the first open water dive..to the first wreck you see, the first night dive, to the best thrill of them all...the first time you breath underwater. Your first sea dive.
Go on the course and enjoy it. Learn from it
Listen to your instructor, and do not be embrrassed to speak out your nervousness or apprehensions.
The odds are so are the rest of the class.

 

[Thalassamania]

I’m curious. When did the meaning of an Open Water Card change from something along the lines of, “qualified to dive in conditions and situations similar to those of your training program with a similarly qualified buddy, in any case no deeper than 'x' feet.” … to something like

"welcome to the scuba diving community, we are now giving you liecence to learn about scuba diving. To gain experience. To learn to walk before you run, and to do so by at least for your first few dives do so under the guidance of a diving instructor or Dive Master.”

How can anyone go about with a strait face and say that the program has not been gutted and dumbed down yet accept (and I don't know Tonio's individual feelings on the subject) this kind of change in definition?

 

[Gombessa]

How can anyone go about with a strait face and say that the program has not been gutted and dumbed down yet accept (and I don't know Tonio's individual feelings on the subject) this kind of change in definition?

Tonio's post was malformatted in my browser, but I think his language implies that he's putting his own spin on how beginners should approach their newly-acquired OW status. I obviously haven't been around long enough toknow how standards/procedures have changed over the last 5/10/50 years, but a conservative "remember that you're still a beginner at this sport, and it doesn't hurt to dive with a DM the first few times" isn't in any case wholly inconsistent with the OW "dive with buddy at level of experience not to exceed xx ft" rule.

I think it would have been great to come out of my OW class fully versed and comfortable with all aspects of basic scuba, but from reading this thread, an extremely rigorous program spanning more than a few weeks and requiring a larger number of dives wouldn't have been allowed in my schedule at all, and it's very likely I would never have even considered trying it. Though OW cert'd, I know that I still have a lot to learn, and plan on taking things slowly and safely, and building experience as I go. Maybe that's not what OW meant a few years ago, but I'm not ready to say it's inherently unsafe or fundamentally flawed just yet.

 

[sepv1]

Hi, Im currently in a OW class through my university, It runs 8 weeks with about 20 hours of pool time, and all for only 160 $
Certification dives will be at devils den florida for another 160, Good deal?

 

[deepblueme]

My talk with PADI about the "Mystery student" involved using PADI Staff Instructors not just divers/students.

""Maybe there should just be occasional spot-auditing, where an agency rep openly attends a class every now and then to see the format/conditions/etc.""

If an Inst. knew that someone would be there watching don't you think they would be doing what he was supposed to do? If they could remember how.
The owner of one of the shops I worked at would tell us "a PADI person is comming" make sure the shop looks good!!!!

 

[Gombessa]

If an Inst. knew that someone would be there watching don't you think they would be doing what he was supposed to do? If they could remember how.
The owner of one of the shops I worked at would tell us "a PADI person is comming" make sure the shop looks good!!!!

Sure, it's not a perfect system, but having someone pretend not to know what they're doing just sounds like a shady activity. Maybe they don't have to wear a PADI nametag, they could just hang out and observe "with the permission of the shop owner".

For somone who teaches day in and out, having a random guy hang around the shop/class every now and then as an observer probably won't change their habits too much. And from experience in other areas of education, really burned-out/lazy instructors aren't suddenly going to instantly become effective ones when strangers show up every so often.