To those considering an OW class...

[Gombessa]

Wow, what a marathon thread. As a newly-minted OW diver, I'm going to say that I've never harbored any delusions of diving without seasoned buddies and a guide/DM who understand that I'm a novice and shouldn't be left floundering about or taking unncessary chances.

I do think of the 2-day course as more of a discovery or pre-cert qualification, but that's just common sense talking; and if you throw out common sense, it really doesn't matter how many dives you're taken on before getting your card: I was sitting in my LDS waiting to head out for an OW cert dive when two 20-something frat boys walked in and said "We want to go diving today." When they were asked to put their names down for tomorrow because the boats were full for the day, they said "We can't do it tomorrow, we're flying out tonight." After the girl running the shop told them that they could die if they do that, one said, "Nah, we've done it before." The other said "you can't live forever, you know" as they swaggered out, presumably to look for a dive shop with open spots for the day. I don't even know if these guys were certified, but I certainly don't see how putting them in a 3-week class would change things.

Finally, I wonder how much the classroom/reading/video time should matter in the equation. I spent about 10 hours reading the text cover to cover prior to the class, and knew it well enough to not miss any questions on the exams, but nearly everything in the book was later detailed by the instructor at some point in the course. For motivated self-studiers, it sounds like classtime is something that can be pared down or compacted without dramatically impacting a new diver's safety (or am I mising something important)?

 

[Thalassamania]

For motivated self-studiers, it sounds like classtime is something that can be pared down or compacted without dramatically impacting a new diver's safety (or am I mising something important)?

If everything a new diver needs to know is in that book and if you're part of the 13% of the american adult public that reads "proficiently" you are likely correct. Otherwise all bets are off.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Wow, what a marathon thread. As a newly-minted OW diver, I'm going to say that I've never harbored any delusions of diving without seasoned buddies and a guide/DM who understand that I'm a novice and shouldn't be left floundering about or taking unncessary chances.

Maybe your expactations are just to low. The stated objective of the course is to leave you qualified to independantly plan and conduct opwn water dives.

There isn't any reason that you shouldn't be able to buddy up with another student from your OW class and go diving afterward...except that you don't seem to think it's a good idea...which indicates to me that the course didn't accomplish it's stated objective. You shouldn't feel like you need a DM to dive.

 

[guzzidude]

Maybe your expactations are just to low. The stated objective of the course is to leave you qualified to independantly plan and conduct opwn water dives.

There isn't any reason that you shouldn't be able to buddy up with another student from your OW class and go diving afterward...except that you don't seem to think it's a good idea...which indicates to me that the course didn't accomplish it's stated objective. You shouldn't feel like you need a DM to dive.

Oh yeah, all of this I agree with Mike and the others above. My class isn't Advanced or anything, and I definetly know that I am not going to be wreck diving by myself after I get my card. I realize that the class title is Orientation to Scuba, not here's your DM cert. lol. After the 4 dives and I get my OW cert. I am going to dive a few and then take the advanced class. I need to find some local divers and hang with them to dive, observe, and learn. This is all I can do for now and hopefully this is what a lot of people do think after this class, but I'm sure alot don't. Anyway, just thought I'd blab, Sorry guys!:hideing_b

 

[Gombessa]

Maybe your expactations are just to low. The stated objective of the course is to leave you qualified to independantly plan and conduct opwn water dives.

There isn't any reason that you shouldn't be able to buddy up with another student from your OW class and go diving afterward...except that you don't seem to think it's a good idea...which indicates to me that the course didn't accomplish it's stated objective. You shouldn't feel like you need a DM to dive.

Hi Mike,

Hard to say you're wrong there, but I am pretty conservative when it comes to potentially dangerous activities, so part of it could just be me.

Let's see, I'd have no problem buddying up in the shallow (28-35ft), high-viz tropical spots where I did my cert dives - I know the area, the waters are calm, and it's shallow enough where I can (relatively safely) do an emergency controlled ascent if needed. But diving somewhere new? Of course I'd always go with people who have dived there already, but I'm really not ashamed to say I'd sure feel better if someone in the group was trained and experienced in handling novice divers!

Either way, I'm not taking my OW card to any blue holes anytime soon, and regardless of the class format, I still consider fresh graduates as rank novices in terms of experience. I'll benefit now from diving with experienced friends (and not needing an instructor present), and maybe with a few more dive trips down the road I'll start to plan my own. I'll just see how comfortable I am at that point

 

[Gombessa]

If everything a new diver needs to know is in that book and if you're part of the 13% of the american adult public that reads "proficiently" you are likely correct. Otherwise all bets are off.

I'd imagine most people posting here would qualify as "proficient" readers (and I've been a "professional student" for nearly 20 years so reading fact-filled textbooks is pretty much second nature to me)!

The important thing of course, is the fact that no amount of reading gives you UW experience, so I figure those who are serious about their education/certification aren't losing too much if the program truncates classtime but preserves CW/OW time.

Happy to be corrected if I'm wrong here.

 

[guzzidude]

The important thing of course, is the fact that no amount of reading gives you UW experience, so I figure those who are serious about their education/certification aren't losing too much if the program truncates classtime but preserves CW/OW time.

You are totally right, experience is worth 10 x's the amount of facts.. That's where the facts came from, other people's experiences, but in order to use these facts you need your own experiences to relate back to the them. Kinesthetic learning is the best.

 

[Tigerman]

If everything a new diver needs to know is in that book and if you're part of the 13% of the american adult public that reads "proficiently" you are likely correct. Otherwise all bets are off.

13 percent?
Thats pretty darned Id think? That is of course without knowing how they define "proficiently" of course, but still it sounds low.

And yeah, I agree.. Self studies does indeed require being able to understand what the text says and you also need to have one more skill to do efficient studies on your own. Analytical skills. Just reading the book and learning the facts as theire stated without understanding the reasoning behind it as far as I see it wouldnt do you much good either..

 

[deepblueme]

"Maybe your expactations are just to low. The stated objective of the course is to leave you qualified to independantly plan and conduct opwn water dives."

You make alot of since alot of the time Mike but sometimes I think you forget the part about "to your level of training and experience" that the "independantly" refers to.

Should training be more through? Yes!!!
Should Bad/Lazy Instructors be burnt at the stake? Yes!!!!
Should the training agency's do more to make sure what needs to be covered in a OW class is? Yes!!!!!
Should CD's/SI's train new Inst better?? Well the few Inst level classes I sat thru/helped teach seemed to cover pretty much everything it took to pass a class and then some. But they they were put on by IDC centers that were more concerned about teaching safty than the $$$$$$$$$.
That said I did get to see some pretty poorly trained DM/IDC canidates come thru that we had to spend some time bringing up to speed.

I have even talked to PADI about why is there not "Mystery students" (staff level Inst.) that take classes to make sure what is supposed to be covered is.

 

[Thalassamania]

Hey, I learned to dive, at a young age, I was a good reader, and my Dad helped me. I was a very strong swimmer, raised in the water and my Dad and I learned our water skills by reading and practicing what the book described. So of course it can be done. I’d not recommend it for everyone however. We spent and entire summer mastering what was in the book (Science of Skin and Scuba).