There are lots of places that don't ask for cards. I'm not trimix yet, but I've gotten air all the way up to 100% O2 without getting carded. I guess if you pull up in the right vehicle with the right gear, that's all that matters. 
To those considering an OW class...
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My husband and I were chuckling the other day over the fact that neither of the two shops where we get Nitrox fills has ever asked for any proof that we took the Nitrox class, which we didn't take from anybody at either of the two shops.
Why should it be considered strange not to have to show a card to buy breathing gas?
I buy helium and oxygen in huge quantities from a commercial gas supplier and they don't care about certification cards or what I'm going to use the gas for. They know I use it for diving and they get a kick out of it but they don't really care and they don't presume to be able to tell me how I should use that gas. They just trade gas for money. They will even premix any gas blend that you want so you could buy all the premixed nitrox or trimix that you want. You specify what you want, they mix it and all you need to show them is your money. You don't need a certification card to buy a compressor or a booster either.
Wanting to see a certification card issued by a dive training agency is strictly a dive training agency thing. If a dive shop belongs the the PADI retail association or is an IANTD shop member (as two examples), then they have signed an agreement to do certain things and requireing cards for fills are amoung them. If a shop has no agency affiliations they are under no obligation legal or otherwise to look at certification cards. Some insurance companies may have requirements in their policies but you would have to read the individual policies.
You really want to have fun with the logic? The agency agreements that require a shop to oly sell gas to certified divers that I have seen, do not define what is and what is not an acceptable card. There is no list of agencies whos cards you can accept. Any card will do as far as I can tell so I don't see any reason why an instructor or even a diver can't print their own.
A certification is just that, a cerrtificate of completion. Restricting access based on them is almost strictly an agency/resort thing. I say almost because government run parks often require them. For instance to dive Peacock Springs state park in Florida you are supposed to display your cave or cavern card on the dash board of your car while you are diving. Most private dive consessions require cards but they are run like dive shops.
Most "dive charters" I've been on, ask for cards but how much do you want to bet that you could charter a boat with a captain and dive from it without him knowing or caring anything about agency requirements? The difference is that a dive charter somhow becomes the diving expert. By contrast, if I just charter a boat, the captain only needs to pilot the boat and leave me to manage diving oporations.
IMO, we should all put all of our cards away in a shoe box someplace and absolutely refuse to show them to anyone for any reason. Then the shops, resorts or whoever could either trade products and services for money or they could close the doors and go home.
I buy helium and oxygen in huge quantities from a commercial gas supplier and they don't care about certification cards or what I'm going to use the gas for. They know I use it for diving and they get a kick out of it but they don't really care and they don't presume to be able to tell me how I should use that gas. They just trade gas for money. They will even premix any gas blend that you want so you could buy all the premixed nitrox or trimix that you want. You specify what you want, they mix it and all you need to show them is your money. You don't need a certification card to buy a compressor or a booster either.
Wanting to see a certification card issued by a dive training agency is strictly a dive training agency thing. If a dive shop belongs the the PADI retail association or is an IANTD shop member (as two examples), then they have signed an agreement to do certain things and requireing cards for fills are amoung them. If a shop has no agency affiliations they are under no obligation legal or otherwise to look at certification cards. Some insurance companies may have requirements in their policies but you would have to read the individual policies.
You really want to have fun with the logic? The agency agreements that require a shop to oly sell gas to certified divers that I have seen, do not define what is and what is not an acceptable card. There is no list of agencies whos cards you can accept. Any card will do as far as I can tell so I don't see any reason why an instructor or even a diver can't print their own.
A certification is just that, a cerrtificate of completion. Restricting access based on them is almost strictly an agency/resort thing. I say almost because government run parks often require them. For instance to dive Peacock Springs state park in Florida you are supposed to display your cave or cavern card on the dash board of your car while you are diving. Most private dive consessions require cards but they are run like dive shops.
Most "dive charters" I've been on, ask for cards but how much do you want to bet that you could charter a boat with a captain and dive from it without him knowing or caring anything about agency requirements? The difference is that a dive charter somhow becomes the diving expert. By contrast, if I just charter a boat, the captain only needs to pilot the boat and leave me to manage diving oporations.
IMO, we should all put all of our cards away in a shoe box someplace and absolutely refuse to show them to anyone for any reason. Then the shops, resorts or whoever could either trade products and services for money or they could close the doors and go home.
Dive-aholic:There are lots of places that don't ask for cards. I'm not trimix yet, but I've gotten air all the way up to 100% O2 without getting carded. I guess if you pull up in the right vehicle with the right gear, that's all that matters.
When in Florida cave diving I've never had to show a card to buy gas. In fact, you can buy gas after hours by just backing your truck up and hooking the fill whip to your tanks. You write on the board what you took and pay later.
I guess they figure that if you're going cave diving that it's best that you have enough of the right gas. LOL makes sense to me.
Florida is great that way. I don't know when the last time you were there was, but they have fences now. The after hours fills are done...unless you know about a place I don't...
BTW, I've gotten fills from PADI 5-stars without showing a card.
BTW, I've gotten fills from PADI 5-stars without showing a card.
Dive-aholic:
No more after hour fills ay Bill R's?
Something that came about after the accident?
I haven't been down there since late 04 when I found out that I was losing my job.
That's just shameful!
Most shops fill tanks for paintballers. Just write "paint ball" on your tanks. That won't hurt your dive.
Visa is the only card a diver should need.
seejork
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i've just got OW certification. however, i really don't feel all comfortable about it.
i haven't been able to be really buoyant. we just did the basic steps and even though i thought to myself that i didn't execute it properly my instructor OKd me on it and it goes with the rest of the skills that i didn't really mastered.
i think it is up to the student to do on his own the mastery of the skills. what i'm planning to do now is first complete the gears so i can practice on my own, take my friends along when i practice in CW. try to master the skills. find a diving buddy who will be willing to be patient with me and then practive in OW. try and master it there as well. and then join some dive trips and accummulate enough dive time before going advanced. although my instructor says i can immediately continue advance after my OW certification.
i took a somewhat tutorial type of class as along with a newbee and the instructor would conduct classroom sessions/CW & OW dives only upon both availability.
the fee was just about reasonable and the instructor, i would say, is OK as he was in the naval service from before. but however, i just didn't feel that he did give enough effort to teach us to master the skills. as long as we were able to go through it is ok with him.
all said, i'm going to my first 33+, which i was told would go as deep as 60ft dive this friday. and even though i'm a bit nervous but excited about it, i don't think i'd get into trouble as i will be diving with some experienced diver along with my instructor.
after this, i think i'd tell my instructor i'd practice some more before going advanced.
just to commend all the guys here in SB, i've learned more than what i could from class by reading through the message boards.
more power!
i haven't been able to be really buoyant. we just did the basic steps and even though i thought to myself that i didn't execute it properly my instructor OKd me on it and it goes with the rest of the skills that i didn't really mastered.
i think it is up to the student to do on his own the mastery of the skills. what i'm planning to do now is first complete the gears so i can practice on my own, take my friends along when i practice in CW. try to master the skills. find a diving buddy who will be willing to be patient with me and then practive in OW. try and master it there as well. and then join some dive trips and accummulate enough dive time before going advanced. although my instructor says i can immediately continue advance after my OW certification.
i took a somewhat tutorial type of class as along with a newbee and the instructor would conduct classroom sessions/CW & OW dives only upon both availability.
the fee was just about reasonable and the instructor, i would say, is OK as he was in the naval service from before. but however, i just didn't feel that he did give enough effort to teach us to master the skills. as long as we were able to go through it is ok with him.
all said, i'm going to my first 33+, which i was told would go as deep as 60ft dive this friday. and even though i'm a bit nervous but excited about it, i don't think i'd get into trouble as i will be diving with some experienced diver along with my instructor.
after this, i think i'd tell my instructor i'd practice some more before going advanced.
just to commend all the guys here in SB, i've learned more than what i could from class by reading through the message boards.
more power!
MikeFerrara:
I prefer the Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln, etc. cards. Then I'm not paying interest on top of insult.
To be honest, I had never thought of the idea of issuing "my own" certification cards.
I have had experiences that vary relating to the showing of c-cards. Ranges from no cards requested to near deity reverence when displaying a DM or above. Iv'e had requests to see my log book evaporate once they saw a DM or higher card.
I find the idea of no c-cards intriguing, but still wonder if there doesn't need to be some sort of check for buying some gear or going on some dives.
I was just going to ask about requiring c-cards to buy regulators, but relaized that if you buy online or from eBay, chances are you're not required to show a card.
It worries me that there could be a scenario that people without any training at all could just jump in the water and start diving and dieing. At least with the current situation there appears to be the idea that training is required.
Of course in many ways, today's minimum standards are nearly like no training at all.
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Frankly if I had a shop I'd not check for certification before filling or selling, you take on a liability by doing so that is nor required by law. Just a big sign saying that diving is dangerous with a similar warning on the receipt.
jbichsel:
Back in the days pre-Internet, I bought a BCD from a national mail-order shop. They insisted that I provide a C-card number before they would agree to ship.
In the Internet age, that seems to be different. I have never been asked for validation of any training or experience to buy brand new life-support equipment.
Before I get flamed by the "Buy ONLY from an LDS crew, I have no LDS where I live. Not for two counties away.
eBay goes without saying, you can (and could) always buy second-hand from an individual without being asked, whether that individual auctioned it via eBay, or was some one in his garage.
I suppose that a shop could always rationalize that "Gas is just gas, without a regulator, it's no problem." However, rental shops will rent you equipment on the rationalization that "we won't also rent you a tank without proof." So, I guess all the untrained diver with a death wish needs is two shops, one for rental gear, and one for gas...
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