BTW, I may not be avocating getting entirely rid of the quick classes, but I certainly would have liked to have the option of a more long and involved class....
To those considering an OW class...
- Thread starter loosebits
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"By the way, I don't tell my students the class is any particular number of sessions - I tell them the course lasts until they can do the skills."
Maybe this is the one of the keys.
My real dissatisfaction with my OW class was not that it was too short, or didn't have enough pool time. It was that I was passed when I didn't even meet standards. I've written before that, when I got my C-card, I had never done a successful descent without holding onto my instructor's BC. In fact, I went on to do them on my back for a couple of MONTHS (that's through AOW) until NW Grateful Diver got hold of me. That shouldn't be.
People vary in their aptitude for things. The fellow my husband refers to above is an absolute natural underwater. His body just falls into place -- his buoyancy control was awesome for his experience level. Passing him after the short course he took (he took a private PADI course) was just fine. He's still an inexperienced diver, and he's aware of that, but he's about where I was at fifty dives already. But passing me was not, in my opinion, warranted. Now, because of who I am and how I am, I was acutely aware that the situation was not good, and I kept on with instruction and I kept trying. But not everybody would have.
Having instructors with good skills to demonstrate, making good trim and neutral buoyancy a solid goal for the class, and refusing to pass people until they have met reasonable minimum standards would go a long way to solving the problems that so many people complain about, in my opinion.
Speaking of instructors setting good examples, why, do you think, were the new divers on our BVI trip practicing skills during their dives?
Maybe this is the one of the keys.
My real dissatisfaction with my OW class was not that it was too short, or didn't have enough pool time. It was that I was passed when I didn't even meet standards. I've written before that, when I got my C-card, I had never done a successful descent without holding onto my instructor's BC. In fact, I went on to do them on my back for a couple of MONTHS (that's through AOW) until NW Grateful Diver got hold of me. That shouldn't be.
People vary in their aptitude for things. The fellow my husband refers to above is an absolute natural underwater. His body just falls into place -- his buoyancy control was awesome for his experience level. Passing him after the short course he took (he took a private PADI course) was just fine. He's still an inexperienced diver, and he's aware of that, but he's about where I was at fifty dives already. But passing me was not, in my opinion, warranted. Now, because of who I am and how I am, I was acutely aware that the situation was not good, and I kept on with instruction and I kept trying. But not everybody would have.
Having instructors with good skills to demonstrate, making good trim and neutral buoyancy a solid goal for the class, and refusing to pass people until they have met reasonable minimum standards would go a long way to solving the problems that so many people complain about, in my opinion.
Speaking of instructors setting good examples, why, do you think, were the new divers on our BVI trip practicing skills during their dives?
Another excellent example of an instructor stepping up. NW GratefulDiver is an a very good role model for instructors to follow.TSandM:
Air On
Guest
Please excuse me as I only skimmed the posts but I didn't see this option listed...
How about adding a Diver Learners permit (like driving permit) that requires people with the shorter resort classes to be required to dive with advenced divers only?
This shouldn't impact the resorts who sponsor supervized dives anyhow, right? It would make them need to complete an expanded OW coarse to get the full OW certification.
So casual divers can use them on supervised vacation dives, Dive shops would be needed for the expanded OW classes more.
Sure a little more paper work and admin changes would be required, BUT... it would solve some big problems that are life threatening. I would change refresher classes into the second stage full OW certification class so that existing card holders are not stripped of their certifications, but simply upgraded when they renew or refresh...
Sound logical? No one is degraded and it allows for abriviated classes with new divers, as long as they are supervised, untill they get another class for full certification.
Or is that what the "Basic OW" and "Advance Diver" set up was supposed to provide?
How about adding a Diver Learners permit (like driving permit) that requires people with the shorter resort classes to be required to dive with advenced divers only?
This shouldn't impact the resorts who sponsor supervized dives anyhow, right? It would make them need to complete an expanded OW coarse to get the full OW certification.
So casual divers can use them on supervised vacation dives, Dive shops would be needed for the expanded OW classes more.
Sure a little more paper work and admin changes would be required, BUT... it would solve some big problems that are life threatening. I would change refresher classes into the second stage full OW certification class so that existing card holders are not stripped of their certifications, but simply upgraded when they renew or refresh...
Sound logical? No one is degraded and it allows for abriviated classes with new divers, as long as they are supervised, untill they get another class for full certification.
Or is that what the "Basic OW" and "Advance Diver" set up was supposed to provide?
To my knowledge there are already a couple of programs along these lines in which the diver is required to do only supervised dives. I believe NAUI, PADI and SSI have them.Air On:
FIXXERVI6
Contributor
Air On:
As long as they were not allowed to dive anywhere that they could do damange, problem is even with an advanced diver, they will still be all over the place just due to lack of practice
I certainly don't expect that an OW instructor could have sent me away with good trim and buoyancy, but the least he could do would be to present a good example, and specifically hold it up as something for us to strive for. Having overweighted students practice skills kneeling on the bottom of the pool might be an instructional necessity, but why would the instructor not show us how do do these same skills mid-water, in good position?
FIXXERVI6:
Sorry that wasn't clear. I didn't mean I taught bouyancy in 5 minutes. I meant a lot of time is wasted on other skills that CAN be taught quickly and shouldn't have so much time wasted on them.
So many instructors simply talk too much and teach too little in the pool. I see it all the time at the shop I work through. Makes me crazy. CraziER.
Being just a "rookie" (6mnth) Instructor and independt without any LDS manager pushing me around, it's my way tooTSandM:
Walt1957
Contributor
I think one thing is, as has been stated by many here on many occasions most of it comes down to the instructor and somewhat the LDS.
My instructor took the time to teach bouyancy to a reasonable level, and gave a lot of constructive critisism as we progressed. He is at the local quarry every Wed. night and offers to buddy with anyone wanting to learn.
My LDS provides free pool time (with free air) with the purchase of an equipment package (a great value added item that costs them virtually nothing, and offsets some of the markup vs. online sales). I have noticed comments that you can't silt a pool. True, but you can't avoid silting a lake, quarry or ocean until you have enough pool time to have mastered bouyancy first, something that can be worked on in a pool.
That combination has made me better than the minimum standards prescribed by SSI. Not perfect, but closer than the card-mills produce. I asked around before taking my classes and got an overwhelming response of who the best LDS was in this area for training, and these are some of the reasons.
The certifying agencies could change things without losing significant customers if they cared. They could do things like offering a 1 year cert in the basic OW and then requiring OW2 for permenant certification. Or even offering a REAL OW2 class for those of us who care enough to want one. And there are enough of us to fill an occasional class. Maybe not weekly, but definitely once in a while.
My instructor took the time to teach bouyancy to a reasonable level, and gave a lot of constructive critisism as we progressed. He is at the local quarry every Wed. night and offers to buddy with anyone wanting to learn.
My LDS provides free pool time (with free air) with the purchase of an equipment package (a great value added item that costs them virtually nothing, and offsets some of the markup vs. online sales). I have noticed comments that you can't silt a pool. True, but you can't avoid silting a lake, quarry or ocean until you have enough pool time to have mastered bouyancy first, something that can be worked on in a pool.
That combination has made me better than the minimum standards prescribed by SSI. Not perfect, but closer than the card-mills produce. I asked around before taking my classes and got an overwhelming response of who the best LDS was in this area for training, and these are some of the reasons.
The certifying agencies could change things without losing significant customers if they cared. They could do things like offering a 1 year cert in the basic OW and then requiring OW2 for permenant certification. Or even offering a REAL OW2 class for those of us who care enough to want one. And there are enough of us to fill an occasional class. Maybe not weekly, but definitely once in a while.
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