I ordered it last week...I will let you know my impressions.
Tired of DIR
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Sue
Guest
Wendy
As I've said I'm reading the book and I agree with a lot of stuff. I have even adapted my rig due some considerations I've read.
Nevertheless i keep on thinking that there is an "elitist attitude" on DIR guys, like: either you do it our way, or you're not one of us.
I do understand and agree with most part of their philosophy: everybody equipped the same way, same goals ecc. It does really makes diving safe, but I do realize that in practice it's not that easy. Either when you travel or at home, you are diving with a lot of diferent people - most of the times an unknown buddy is imposed to you by the operators. What should you do if you're DIR and he's not? If you say you won't dive with him, the operator says then you don't dive at all!
Just my thoughs ...
Sue
As I've said I'm reading the book and I agree with a lot of stuff. I have even adapted my rig due some considerations I've read.
Nevertheless i keep on thinking that there is an "elitist attitude" on DIR guys, like: either you do it our way, or you're not one of us.
I do understand and agree with most part of their philosophy: everybody equipped the same way, same goals ecc. It does really makes diving safe, but I do realize that in practice it's not that easy. Either when you travel or at home, you are diving with a lot of diferent people - most of the times an unknown buddy is imposed to you by the operators. What should you do if you're DIR and he's not? If you say you won't dive with him, the operator says then you don't dive at all!
Just my thoughs ...
Sue
That's kind of the problem...is a stroke anyone who doesn't dive DIR or just an unsafe diver?
I know plenty of safe divers who haven't heard of DIR... If I dive with them am I a stroke?
More importantly, do I care? If the decision is to dive with someone who is not DIR (whom I know is a safe diver, IMHO) or to not dive at all, I will dive with the non-DIR diver...
I know plenty of safe divers who haven't heard of DIR... If I dive with them am I a stroke?
More importantly, do I care? If the decision is to dive with someone who is not DIR (whom I know is a safe diver, IMHO) or to not dive at all, I will dive with the non-DIR diver...
Sue
Guest
From a text written by a DIR guy:
"Finally, the First Rule of Hogarthian diving is possibly the most important piece of wisdom in the diving world, and is something we should all apply to all of our diving. It is, simply, 'Don't dive with strokes.' The term 'stroke' refers to someone who, knowing there is a better system, chooses to dive in a less than optimal way. It applies to those instructors who encourage students (who know no better) to exercise Personal Preference, in order to sell more equipment; it applies to those who don't plan their dives; those who dive beyond their abilities; who dive deep on air; who take unnecessary risks; who do big dives using unfamiliar gear; who's only reason for diving is depth"
According to some ideas in this text I am a stroke. Of course I plan my dives, I don't take unnecessary risks, depth is not my only reason for diving ... but I do believe in Personal Preference (what works for me or suits me, might not work or suit you), and according to the DIR standards I dive deep on air.
Also, in what concerns the statement "someone who, knowing there is a better system, chooses to dive in a less than optimal way" when they mention better system, they mean the DIR/Halcyion rig - for instance my DR Transpac II is not DIR because it has 4 Drings and not three.
Does that makes us strokes under a DIR point of view? I believe so...
"Finally, the First Rule of Hogarthian diving is possibly the most important piece of wisdom in the diving world, and is something we should all apply to all of our diving. It is, simply, 'Don't dive with strokes.' The term 'stroke' refers to someone who, knowing there is a better system, chooses to dive in a less than optimal way. It applies to those instructors who encourage students (who know no better) to exercise Personal Preference, in order to sell more equipment; it applies to those who don't plan their dives; those who dive beyond their abilities; who dive deep on air; who take unnecessary risks; who do big dives using unfamiliar gear; who's only reason for diving is depth"
According to some ideas in this text I am a stroke. Of course I plan my dives, I don't take unnecessary risks, depth is not my only reason for diving ... but I do believe in Personal Preference (what works for me or suits me, might not work or suit you), and according to the DIR standards I dive deep on air.
Also, in what concerns the statement "someone who, knowing there is a better system, chooses to dive in a less than optimal way" when they mention better system, they mean the DIR/Halcyion rig - for instance my DR Transpac II is not DIR because it has 4 Drings and not three.
Does that makes us strokes under a DIR point of view? I believe so...
A non-DIR diver just isn't a person that isn't a safe diver, it can also be gear configuration. I have seen some ow divers that look as though they were given 5 mins to raid a dive shop, but had to wear everything they grabbed on their dives.
I guess that I am luck y because I am DIR and I have DIR buddies both for ow and cave diving. I don't cave dive with anyone that isn't DIR, or that I don't know. If I don't know you and you are referred to me from one of my regular buddies, then we can dive. Don't take this the wrong way, I don't think I'm better than anybody, and I'm not an elitist DIR diver, I just feel more comfortable with DIR divers for my technical diving. Its important to all be on the same page when doing this kind of diving, and I like to know that if there is an emergency that my buddy is trained to handle it the same way I would, that in an emergency and we were in zero zis that I know where every piece of his gear is because it is set up exactly like mine.
As far as ow/rec diving goes, I here too prefer a DIR buddy. I wouldn't go on a charter without having a buddy with me. I uderstand that when some of you travel you have no choice, but I personally wouldn't dive if I had to dive with a stranger. This person could really suck and then I wouldn't enjoy the dive as much, not to mention countless other things that could happen. But I do have friends that don't call themselves DIR that I would still do an ow dive with.
I hope this makes sense. Sometimes I know what I'm thinking in my mind, but when it comes out in my typing, it gets screwy.
I guess that I am luck y because I am DIR and I have DIR buddies both for ow and cave diving. I don't cave dive with anyone that isn't DIR, or that I don't know. If I don't know you and you are referred to me from one of my regular buddies, then we can dive. Don't take this the wrong way, I don't think I'm better than anybody, and I'm not an elitist DIR diver, I just feel more comfortable with DIR divers for my technical diving. Its important to all be on the same page when doing this kind of diving, and I like to know that if there is an emergency that my buddy is trained to handle it the same way I would, that in an emergency and we were in zero zis that I know where every piece of his gear is because it is set up exactly like mine.
As far as ow/rec diving goes, I here too prefer a DIR buddy. I wouldn't go on a charter without having a buddy with me. I uderstand that when some of you travel you have no choice, but I personally wouldn't dive if I had to dive with a stranger. This person could really suck and then I wouldn't enjoy the dive as much, not to mention countless other things that could happen. But I do have friends that don't call themselves DIR that I would still do an ow dive with.
I hope this makes sense. Sometimes I know what I'm thinking in my mind, but when it comes out in my typing, it gets screwy.
Now, this takes the opinion out of the equation...if I KNOW there is a better system, I am assuming that DIR is that system and I had better KNOW it is better (not just think, believe, etc.) and if I am not diving it I am a stroke.
Is diving in a less than optimal way operationally defined as deviating from DIR in any way, shape, or form? If we are to the point of counting D-Rings to figure out if we are strokes or not, then count me among the strokes forever.
This seems like splitting hairs to me and people are taking it too far - i.e. DIR Fundamentalism (analogous to religious fundamentalism). I think the ideas are good, but following them to the letter just doesn't make sense for most people.
That said, I am not a cave diver either...so what do I know?
Sue
Guest
Wendy
As I said before I understand your point of view ... but I can't agree.
First, in my tek dives (cave or not) i dive with my group - non DIR, but tek divers. We have the same thoughts and goals. We know each other's configuration and attitude so everything works well.
In rec dives in here happens the same, but when I travel things are different. Last year I went in a Red Sea liveaboard alone. I was first assigned with a buddy (the only guy also alone in there)that was diving 15 meters above me all the time. Then the divemaster allowed me to dive alone (not too far from the group, but without a buddy). He did this because he realised that I was not enjoying the dives due the responsability of having a "buddy" so different from me. From that moment I've spend a wonderfull time diving there. This would be impossible under a DIR point of view (diving without a buddy). I still have the idea that a pony bottle is a good buddy.
Sue
As I said before I understand your point of view ... but I can't agree.
First, in my tek dives (cave or not) i dive with my group - non DIR, but tek divers. We have the same thoughts and goals. We know each other's configuration and attitude so everything works well.
In rec dives in here happens the same, but when I travel things are different. Last year I went in a Red Sea liveaboard alone. I was first assigned with a buddy (the only guy also alone in there)that was diving 15 meters above me all the time. Then the divemaster allowed me to dive alone (not too far from the group, but without a buddy). He did this because he realised that I was not enjoying the dives due the responsability of having a "buddy" so different from me. From that moment I've spend a wonderfull time diving there. This would be impossible under a DIR point of view (diving without a buddy). I still have the idea that a pony bottle is a good buddy.
Sue
I see your point. DIR when you can buddy with them and when you are doing technical dives, but occasionally you will violate a DIR principle/mandate if you have to in rec diving so you can have fun or increase safety.
Makes sense to me...
Makes sense to me...
Sue
Guest
No, I don't do it DIR (in their acception) I don't wear the long hose around my neck, it is connected to my secondary second stage and not primary second stage, I dive with a computer (two computers and tables, because I'm a redundancy fanatic), I wear two cutting devices. I don't have manifoldes doubles, but independent doubles ...
that makes me non DIR, but...
that's the way my dive mates also have their rigs. So, if something happens, we all know how each other is rigged - AND this is one of the DIR principles!?!
What a mess!
that makes me non DIR, but...
that's the way my dive mates also have their rigs. So, if something happens, we all know how each other is rigged - AND this is one of the DIR principles!?!
What a mess!
Yeah...I need a cup of coffee...thanks for the discussion..
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