Those health forms -- Truth or Consequences?

[RJP]

I will answer clearly: I think it is fine to lie on a dive op's medical form if one already has clearance from their own diving doctor.

Ooh, you were so close to answering clearly.

Will you take the final step...and not answer CONDITIONALLY? ("I think it is fine to lie...if...")

"I think it's fine to lie on the form."

Y/N

 

[Sas]

Ooh, you were so close to answering clearly.

Will you take the final step...and not answer CONDITIONALLY? ("I think it is fine to lie...if...")

"I think it's fine to lie on the form."

Y/N

No I will not answer unconditionally because I have no unconditional answer in this situation nor do I see the need for an unconditional answer. I have no idea why you think this, of all things, needs one.

 

[lulubelle]

Much easier to sleep I guess when you don't have answers to simple questions...

Sleep was good thanks. And I gave you the answer you asked for, several times, it just didn't happen to conform to your either/or, black/white, yes/no concrete thinking mind. Much of life is complex enough that it won't fit into a black/white decision making process like yours. You don't seem to understand that decisions like these are gray. Most are.

 

[boulderjohn]

This whole health form signing business is a purely American thing and has everything to do with liability and nothing with common sense. If it was truly about determining whether an individual was fit to dive, they would make every diver to get checked by a physician regularly. I am not aware of any medical condition that I have, but even if I did, I would still check "No" on every question without bothering to read it. It's a formality, nothing more.

A lot of people would not realize their current medical condition is a problem were they not required to check it. Just for one example, I know several women who were interested in scuba lessons even through they were either pregnant or trying to get pregnant. Having to check that on the form led them to understand the danger of that and hold off on their training.

 

[boulderjohn]

For instance, should a young person who is taking acne medication disclose this on a dive ops' medical form? .

Can you tell me which question demands this disclosure? Please quote the exact words.

 

[Mike Boswell]

Seems that the point most people are trying to make is that if they have a well controlled health issue that has no potential to cause a problem while diving and have been cleared to dive, that they don't care to make everyone's life difficult by disclosing it. I don't, and won't.

I would agree that if you have a well controlled health problem that COULD become a problem in the context of diving, you should disclose this on your medical form.

With respect, I think you should reconsider.

When you sign on to go diving with a dive op, you are freely entering into a contractual business relationship. Each party has a right to obtain certain information from the other, and each party has a duty to disclose requested information to the other.

If you assert that you have the right to lie on the medical questionaire, doesn't it logically follow that the dive op has the right to be dishonest with you?

Perhaps it would be okay with you if they kind of fudge their compressor maintenance records, or their DM's actual dive qualifications, or the safety of their boat, so as not to "make everyone's life difficult by disclosing it"?

A dive business does not ask you to sign a medical questionaire because they enjoy harassing people, or because they like to turn away customers, or because they like to mess with unneccessary paperwork. They do it to protect themselves, their staff, their other customers, and you.

But the biggest reason to be honest is this: You are what you do. If you lie, then you are a liar.

 

[RJP]

Can you tell me which question demands this disclosure? Please quote the exact words.

Here's something I don't think anyone is thinking about. Some may see this as me being "overly emotive" about this, but I'm speaking from a position of having experience with this:

Imagine that a diver has a diving accident and unfortunately is now unresponsive/unconscious. We've gotten you out of the water, are rendering life support, and administering 02, while awaiting the Coast Guard. When the Coast Guard arrives they ask us:

What were the dive profiles, gas mixes, etc? We give the info from our roster sheet, the diver's computer, info from buddy, etc

What are vitals, signs/symptoms, care provided, timeline, etc? We provide the written notes we've been keep from the moment we spotted the diver in the water until current moment

Does the diver have any medical conditions, allergies, taking any medications, etc? We provide them the diver's signed medical release that has nothing but "NO" written on it.

If the diver has lied on any of the "NO" responses the people now rendering medical care for that diver have no idea what they are dealing with. Irrespective of whether or not such undisclosed conditions/factors/issues actually CAUSED the accident or even whether knowing about conditions/factors/issues would have PREVENTED the accident...the fact of the matter is NOT KNOWING ABOUT THEM NOW could have a dramatic impact on the care that is administered.

There are literally hundred of conditions, diseases, medical history, allergies, etc that may be completely unimportant before entering the water, but that could literally mean a life/death turn of events during emergent treatment of a diving accident.

 

[sabbath999]

How is that any different than UNDIAGNOSED medical conditions?

I can see it for unreported medications or allergies, but what about somebody who has undiagnosed high blood pressure or heart disease or some other illness because they haven't been to a doctor in 15 years?

The original poster had a clean bill of health from her physicians to dive... doctors who are divers clearing her completely to dive... she was taking no medications and has no counter-indicated diving disorders WHATEVER... that's a LOT better history than somebody who has had undiagnosed uncontrolled blood pressure and filled out the health form "honestly" even though the information he gave was completely wrong.

 

[captain]

Here's something I don't think anyone is thinking about. Some may see this as me being "overly emotive" about this, but I'm speaking from a position of having experience with this:

Imagine that a diver has a diving accident and unfortunately is now unresponsive/unconscious. We've gotten you out of the water, are rendering life support, and administering 02, while awaiting the Coast Guard. When the Coast Guard arrives they ask us:

What were the dive profiles, gas mixes, etc? We give the info from our roster sheet, the diver's computer, info from buddy, etc

What are vitals, signs/symptoms, care provided, timeline, etc? We provide the written notes we've been keep from the moment we spotted the diver in the water until current moment


Does the diver have any medical conditions, allergies, taking any medications, etc? We provide them the diver's signed medical release that has nothing but "NO" written on it.

If the diver has lied on any of the "NO" responses the people now rendering medical care for that diver have no idea what they are dealing with. Irrespective of whether or not such undisclosed conditions/factors/issues actually CAUSED the accident or even whether knowing about conditions/factors/issues would have PREVENTED the accident...the fact of the matter is NOT KNOWING ABOUT THEM NOW could have a dramatic impact on the care that is administered.

There are literally hundred of conditions, diseases, medical history, allergies, etc that may be completely unimportant before entering the water, but that could literally mean a life/death turn of events during emergent treatment of a diving accident.

EMT deal with this everyday when they respond to an unresponsive accident or other medical incident victim. Do they ask bystanders if they know the victim medical history. Maybe they get some if the victim was with a friend or relative but not if it all strangers.
They deal with the situation as they see it.

 

[Kingpatzer]

When you sign on to go diving with a dive op, you are freely entering into a contractual business relationship. Each party has a right to obtain certain information from the other, and each party has a duty to disclose requested information to the other.

That simply is not true. There is a duty to disclose relevant information. The dive operator can ask for my social security and savings account numbers, but there is no duty to disclose such information, it is personal data not necessary to the contract.

If I have a recent dive physical and have been cleared to dive by my physician, then that clearance is relevant, but the specifics about my health history are not. That they are not asking a relevant question, but are asking irrelevant ones is not my problem, but I am under no duty to provide that information.

If they would ask "Have you had a dive physical in the last <insert time frame> and have you been cleared to dive by your dive physician?" And I answer "Yes," when the answer is really "No." Then I have failed a duty.

But when they ask for a list of health questions when they have no capacity to evaluate the impact on those answers on my fitness to dive, have no medical relationship with me, are not guaranteeing the security and privacy of my private medical information, and are providing me with no guarantee that they will allow me to dive if I am honest and provide proof of clearance from my dive physician, then they are not only asking information that is not relevant to the contract, but they are presenting an inequity within the contract.

The nature of why I can not dive is not relevant to them. And if I have been cleared to dive, by a person with the knowledge and expertise to make such a decision, then they have no basis to know anything more than that fact. They do not have the expertise to make use of specific medical information, and that information is immaterial to the service for which I am contracting.