ugh...getting a training medical form

[MidOH]

It challenges those of us without issues as well. I can honesty check no for every box, but am still going to be grumpy about having to do so.

It doesnt make anyone safer, obviously. And its really none of their buisness.

 

[tursiops]

Because if it was anonymous they'd have nothing to lose and maybe they'd take the opportunity to let others know they lied, and why they lied, as a sort of vent of their frustration regarding the system and how doctors fearful of malpractice suits and/or unfamiliar with diving physiology makes things difficult for some of those medically challenged individuals to enjoy the sport.

Got it. You lie if it is personally advantageous but only if there is no penalty?
Glad you are not my student. Or instructor. Or dive buddy. Or boat captain. Or doctor. Or IT professional.

 

[tursiops]

And its really none of their buisness.

Not having you keel over on their dive boat IS, in fact, their business.
If you don't want them to know about your medical items, just hand them the page signed by the doctor; that is all they need.

 

[gamon]

Glad you are not my student. Or instructor. Or dive buddy. Or boat captain. Or doctor. Or IT professional.

And I'm glad you're not my instructor, or my financial advisor, or my attorney, or my girlfriend, or my house pet.

 

[tursiops]

And I'm glad you're not my instructor, or my financial advisor, or my attorney, or my girlfriend, or my house pet.

Great. Let's keep it that way, OK?

 

[gamon]

Great. Let's keep it that way, OK?

Well, we can try but we really don't know who we are.

And I might be looking for a new pet next week.

 

[boulderjohn]

Is lying on the medical form a common practice? I really have no idea. Someone should create a survey.

There is a thread going on right now about the crisis in scuba insurance. In it, veteran scuba attorney David Concannon made these comments on post #61:

First, the dive industry needs to find ways to immediately reduce claims. You talk about problems that require solutions on SB all the time, even if you are not aware you are doing so. If you employ solutions, you will reduce claims. Here are a few examples:​

• 50-60% of all underwater fatalities involve underlying medical conditions, both known and unknown. Maybe it’s time to have an honest discussion about fitness and diving? I will never fault an operator for turning away an unfit diver. I’d take that bad review on Trip Advisor over a dead diver case any day.
• A staggering number of claims involve people lying on their medical forms. This has become the norm, not the exception. I have had multiple cases where the diver died on the first or second dive from the medical condition they knew they had, and also knew it was a contraindication to diving. Requiring a medical sign off is worthless if it can be from anybody who simply has letters after their name. The vast majority of medical professionals in the US have no idea what they are signing and saying their patients are fit to do. As a dive professional, I would not be afraid to ask the customer more questions about their doctor’s experience level before I accepted their medical form.

 

[goldfishtornado]

Why wouldn't they also lie on the survey?

This is a real problem in survey design. There are various ways of trying to extract this information, but all very high uncertainty. For example, one way is to ask how maybe people do you know that have done various innocuous thing you have good population level data for. Then ask how many people do you know that have done x, undesirable to admit to thing.

I think it would be hard to get anything useful from such a survey though. In particular because it's not clear to me it would answer questions like:
- How many people who are medically unfit from diving are deterred by the form?
- How many people who are medically unfit from diving are not deterred by the form, but cleared by someone with limited knowledge of diving?
- How many people who are medically fit from diving are deterred by the form?
- How many people who are medically fit for diving are are unable to be cleared, because they seek a signature from someone with limited knowledge of diving? Someone who is familiar with diving but doesn't want the liability?
- Is the form designed to protect participants in diving or CYA
...

 

[Lorenzoid]

This is a real problem in survey design. There are various ways of trying to extract this information, but all very high uncertainty. For example, one way is to ask how maybe people do you know that have done various innocuous thing you have good population level data for. Then ask how many people do you know that have done x, undesirable to admit to thing.

I think it would be hard to get anything useful from such a survey though. In particular because it's not clear to me it would answer questions like:
- How many people who are medically unfit from diving are deterred by the form?
- How many people who are medically unfit from diving are not deterred by the form, but cleared by someone with limited knowledge of diving?
- How many people who are medically fit from diving are deterred by the form?
- How many people who are medically fit for diving are are unable to be cleared, because they seek a signature from someone with limited knowledge of diving? Someone who is familiar with diving but doesn't want the liability?
- Is the form designed to protect participants in diving or CYA
...

Wow. I was just envisioning an informal poll on SB, asking members if they have ever been untruthful on the medical form, much as we have had other polls. There are certainly all kinds of reasons why the results would not be representative of the population of all divers.

 

[gamon]

Wow. I was just envisioning an informal poll on SB, asking members if they have ever been untruthful on the medical form, much as we have had other polls.

You could do that, but make sure there's a question that asks "Were you truthful on this survey" just in case someone wasn't.