This gave me the creeps

[rhwestfall]

Golf?

Knowing what I had to learn and demonstrate to earn a "bag tag" as a pre-teen, allowing me to golf unsupervised at the country club my folks were members at, I am repulsed with what golf has regressed to.

You have money? You get to do whatever you want....

 

[Bubbles McGee]

Some people just should not dive.

Yikes.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

...what I did not like about this original post was the glorification of self-induced danger and horrible diving. Keep those blog posts to yourself!

I can’t agree more!
If you don’t mind, I’d like to use that line to start another thread specifically addressing this problem.
Not so much about the problem of horrible divers, but the problem of horrible divers who glorify their horrible dives on social media, almost as if they are bragging about how disfunctional their dive was.

 

[Diving Dubai]

Can anybody else relate this thread to the thread that asks if dive training is being watered down? Maybe just for this diver it was.

No, I cannot agree with this sweeping statement, nor those comments made by @Eric Sedletzky.

Training has moved on a long way for the "military" approach of yesteryear. What you could say that previously diving was less accessible then, than it is today.

It is a tired old line to say training is watered down, and somewhat disingenuous too. Of course despite all of the agencies best efforts, there will be instructors for what ever reason only teach to the minimum standard.

That said, students can be as much to blame. You can drill them through all the skills and get them to achieve the required standard repeatably. It can be an uphill battle, persuading someone to continue to practice the skill - Mask flood is a perfect example, few enjoy it and don't wish to repeat once they've completed it.

Skills as you both know are degradable, if someone doesn't dive regularly or doesn't wish to continue to practice skills once certified there is nothing you can do.

Looking back when I reached 100 dives my skills were shocking, while I my focus had been of good buoyancy trim and consumption Mask flood would would be a train wreck and the idea of mask removal... So I can relate to personal experience, before I realised my faults and took steps to correct. My inadequacies back then weren't down to the instructor nor the training they were down to me allowing my skills to degrade. Once I sought a mentor to get me back on track I never looked back.

Some people just get into bad habits, adding weight to compensate for issues or guessing weight and adding extra for "safety" despite having been taught how to weight check

For sure these two clowns were on a dive outside their comfort zone and capabilities. Hopefully their takeaway was that they need to get their basic skills sorted.

So mostly it's not fair to blame the instructor or agency, people often meet the standards when certified but choose not to apply what they've learnt to real diving. A prime example is buddy checks. How many divers ignore them or do a superficial check?

I bet they were all taught the proper way to do it in training but post cert have chosen not to....

 

[TONY CHANEY]

So I was researching Blue Grotto as I am considering this as an alternate trip to St Lawrence and I come across this video. WTF. So the issue is more serious thanI had ever even realized. WTF are people thinking.Video says dive to 100 feet. AL80, new divers. One does not know how to turn on her flashlight which looks like it was purchased at Advanced auto parts. Dont see backup lights. Zero trim and anything even remotely resembling skills required to enter an overhead environment. One diver has no clue of proper ascent procedures. Buddy so far they may as well be in another zip code should something happen. The training in the industry is broken as there must be a test for insanity that is missing as part of the OW cert. I am in disbelief. A body recovery waiting to happen. Got to minute 18:10.. Deco Dive ! Wow

Not to be an ars, but I really do not see much wrong. Looked to me that they had a planned dive, they dived the plan, keep in contact with each other, good signals, kept and eye on their computer and SPG, stayed within the cavern zone and her kit was pretty streamlined. That couple has something to work with, unlike that dumb ars in the first video.

 

[Landlocked123]

I respectfully disagree 100%. Well I guess we have a very different definition of streamlined kit for one. To me a dive with an AL80 to 100 feet and deco is not safe. There is no way anyone is going to convince me these divers should have done what they did with the equipment they had and the skill level they had. Bouncing off the bottom. And no I don't think they were close enough for portions of the dive. Nor did they remain in the cavern zone that I could tell as based on the video it appears there is a good portion of the penetration where there is no light in sight. Going into deco on an AL80 on a 100 foot dive is not cool. If I were a betting man I would bet these divers are not trained to do deco dives. No redundant air supply. So what would have happened had one of them had a catastrophic first stage failure and lost all his/her gas right at the deco stop. How much air was probably left in the other dives AL80 to now have to account for both their air consumption on the deco stop (which could easily sky rocket due to stress) and a safe slow ascent.

 

[shoredivr]

With respect to the first dive on the Lillie Parsons, I disagree with Trace Marlin regarding not wearing gloves. I’ve been diving the St Lawrence River since 2003 and can’t imagine doing it in the warm summer months without gloves in terms of the zebra mussels.

 

[Superlyte27]

With respect to the first dive on the Lillie Parsons, I disagree with Trace Marlin regarding not wearing gloves. I’ve been diving the St Lawrence River since 2003 and can’t imagine doing it in the warm summer months without gloves in terms of the zebra mussels.

It’s because he’s a cave diver. We cave divers really don’t like gloves. You can’t feel the line that might save your life.

 

[gcarter]

With respect to the first dive on the Lillie Parsons, I disagree with Trace Marlin regarding not wearing gloves. I’ve been diving the St Lawrence River since 2003 and can’t imagine doing it in the warm summer months without gloves in terms of the zebra mussels.

I agree with that. I always wear thin gloves in the river.

 

[Jack Hammer]

I respectfully disagree 100%. Well I guess we have a very different definition of streamlined kit for one. To me a dive with an AL80 to 100 feet and deco is not safe. There is no way anyone is going to convince me these divers should have done what they did with the equipment they had and the skill level they had. Bouncing off the bottom. And no I don't think they were close enough for portions of the dive. Nor did they remain in the cavern zone that I could tell as based on the video it appears there is a good portion of the penetration where there is no light in sight. Going into deco on an AL80 on a 100 foot dive is not cool. If I were a betting man I would bet these divers are not trained to do deco dives. No redundant air supply. So what would have happened had one of them had a catastrophic first stage failure and lost all his/her gas right at the deco stop. How much air was probably left in the other dives AL80 to now have to account for both their air consumption on the deco stop (which could easily sky rocket due to stress) and a safe slow ascent.

I think you're reading too deeply into this video. Video frequently makes cavern look like cave, it doesn't pick up the natural daylight, especially when external lighting is used. Her light looks to be an older Princeton Tec light, not sold in auto parts stores but in dive shops for diving. It takes 2 hands to turn some dive lights on, not easy with it tied to your fore arm. Also you can clearly see he is carrying a pony bottle, so there is some level of redundancy. I didnt see them being zip codes apart. I definately dont see them at all as "a body recovery waiting to happen." I'd also add I find a bit of your comments overly melodramatic.

That said, they dont appear to be following good cavern diving protocol, they definately should look into some bouyancy control and anti silting training. I got the impression they were flying their computer instead of having any deco training too. This is about what I'd expect to see from OW divers at Blue Grotto, and unfortunately is pretty typical. It's not something I'd recommend either.

Safe Diving


Edit: fixed typos