Thinking to solo dive ???

[Oside Jimc]

 

[DeepBound]

... (I could of just as easily jumped on the individual who commented about solo diving and having repeated reg freeflows because of cold water conditions,who could do himself a favor and get some other better performing cold-water regs.But I'm not the scuba cop) ...

Yeah.. that was me I fell victim to an internet marketing scam and got all Apeks regs because it was claimed that they are God's gift to divers. Oh well, I'll know better next time.

 

[Kingpatzer]

You have to be able to anticipate the risks, be extra vigilant to avoid them, and be methodical to resolve the ones you can’t avoid.

Just to be a bit nit-picky:

You don't anticipate risks. You know risks. "Risk" is a short hand way of talking about probabilities of undesirable outcomes, and as such risk is there as facts in situ, risks are not events which happen.

What must be anticipated is manifest events; things that go wrong; risk realized as incident.

I am uncomfortable with the notion that "risk" can be avoided. It's simply not true. Risk is inherent in a particular activity or sub-activity. That particular activity or sub-activity can often be avoided by not choosing a particular action or course.

Let's say for sake of argument, that untrained cave divers have negative outcomes (die horrible preventable deaths) 12% of the time. We could say that 'diving in a cave without proper training carries a 12% risk of death. Now, if we have proper training or we choose to not dive in a cave without proper training, it is not the case that that risk is 'avoided.' Untrained cave divers diving in caves still carry a 12% risk of death. The risk is unchanged. What is changed is our relationship to the activity that leads to the incidents that result in that level of risk. The incidents which lead to death in those cases are avoided for us because we do not engage in the activity that carries that risk.

Scuba diving is a macro level thing, with many risks -- possible negative outcomes each with certain probabilities of being manifest -- with many individual sub-activites that make it up.

Cave diving without certification is not less risky if I simply don't do it. That risk is still there. Rather, the incidents that can arise due to that inherent risk are avoided by not engaging in that set of sub-activities of scuba diving.

If there were a way to 'avoid risk,' it would mean that I, by some miricle power available only to myself, could go cave diving without proper training and yet not be subject to that 12% risk of death. I could avoid it. But there is no way for any of us to do that.

So, I don't think it's a negligable point or merely a semantic distinction. Indeed, it is central to this discussion. The risks are there. We need to know our training, skills, equipment, limitations, psychological state, and all the other little factos so that we can judge for ourselves if we are willing to take on a paritcular activity in light of the risks present. If we think we can avoid risk, then we will eventually make the judgement call that the "risks don't apply to me" for some magical reason, and that is when an incident will show us wrong.

 

[GDI]

Yeah.. that was me I fell victim to an internet marketing scam and got all Apeks regs because it was claimed that they are God's gift to divers. Oh well, I'll know better next time.

Apeks? I use Apeks and they have never failed me in cold water, man you may just not be lucky.

 

[scubashawn123]

There is specific additional risk in solo diving that can only be mitigated by a buddy. All other things being equal,
(1) if the solo diver suffers a debilitating event (heart attack, stroke, convulsion, injury) they die.
(2) if the solo diver gets trapped underwater, they die.
This additional risk is often rationalized away in some most entertaining twists of logic, relegated to a footnote, or outright ignored.
I like to get it up front and out in the open.
I'm not saying you shouldn't ever dive solo... e was solo we'll never know.
--
Insta-buddies... just remember, every time you get an insta-buddy, you are an insta-buddy too
Rick

Well here are my two cents for what its worth.

Scuba Diving is an adventure sport using life support equipment.
Last statistic for 2007 I remember reading was less than 1 million active certified scuba divers in US population 300 million. Definition for this survey was 5-6 dives a year being an active diver. Thats my count per month if I am on schedule for my diving year in the sport.
Out of this number how many are Solo diving? Probably very small number of the population. Does that make Solo diving elite? My answer is yes.

When I was a US Navy diver on submarines, all our dives were solo. Most professionals understand that solo diving is required and not a lot of time to plan. Back in my Navy daze on submarines our dive team was expendable and they let us know this. I had a lot of close calls, no vis and no redundancy. Boy have things changed, and changed for the better with equipment, training and safety. I was in the Bahamas diving a few years ago and remember the dive master going solo down to the wreck with the bouy line against a current. Reminded me of the "can-do" attitude we had under any situation diving professionally. He had no redundancy.

Considering that the Scuba diving community polices itself and training agencies, I believe we are the most exciting and one of the safest sports available for adults and children. The technical diving community has more knowledge and better redundant equipment available than I did back in the early eighties. Great strides with safety and techniques being discussed, shared and tested monthly. Great ways to share ideas and techniques and questions like ScubaBoard.

With people living longer, people over 50 getting to do things like diving that they did not do younger, we are living in a really exciting time in history. 30 years ago when you got to 30 years old or sooner you were disqualified to dive. Today, modern medicine, good safe practices, procedures and an incredible safety record in recreational diving we can encourage almost anyone to explore the underwater world. More is better since we have a lot of room to grow this wonderful sport of scuba diving, just look at the number of avid active divers available in my first paragraph. This will probably open up to some sad medical incidents diving that have not been seen in the last 20 years, not necessarily directly related to scuba diving, but do to the age of the divers.

I am grateful being located in Central Texas and diving with Texas Swamp divers I have a great group of divers to hook up with whether diving with a buddy or solo diving.

Glad to be able to dive, Glad to be free in this great nation (USA) Glad to be a Texas Diver.

See you diving,

Shawn O'Shea

 

[captain]

Just to be a bit nit-picky:

You don't anticipate risks. You know risks. "Risk" is a short hand way of talking about probabilities of undesirable outcomes, and as such risk is there as facts in situ, risks are not events which happen.

What must be anticipated is manifest events; things that go wrong; risk realized as incident.

I am uncomfortable with the notion that "risk" can be avoided. It's simply not true. Risk is inherent in a particular activity or sub-activity. That particular activity or sub-activity can often be avoided by not choosing a particular action or course.

Let's say for sake of argument, that untrained cave divers have negative outcomes (die horrible preventable deaths) 12% of the time. We could say that 'diving in a cave without proper training carries a 12% risk of death. Now, if we have proper training or we choose to not dive in a cave without proper training, it is not the case that that risk is 'avoided.' Untrained cave divers diving in caves still carry a 12% risk of death. The risk is unchanged. What is changed is our relationship to the activity that leads to the incidents that result in that level of risk. The incidents which lead to death in those cases are avoided for us because we do not engage in the activity that carries that risk.

Scuba diving is a macro level thing, with many risks -- possible negative outcomes each with certain probabilities of being manifest -- with many individual sub-activites that make it up.

Cave diving without certification is not less risky if I simply don't do it. That risk is still there. Rather, the incidents that can arise due to that inherent risk are avoided by not engaging in that set of sub-activities of scuba diving.

If there were a way to 'avoid risk,' it would mean that I, by some miricle power available only to myself, could go cave diving without proper training and yet not be subject to that 12% risk of death. I could avoid it. But there is no way for any of us to do that.

So, I don't think it's a negligable point or merely a semantic distinction. Indeed, it is central to this discussion. The risks are there. We need to know our training, skills, equipment, limitations, psychological state, and all the other little factos so that we can judge for ourselves if we are willing to take on a paritcular activity in light of the risks present. If we think we can avoid risk, then we will eventually make the judgement call that the "risks don't apply to me" for some magical reason, and that is when an incident will show us wrong.

All true, but probablity of the risk also has to be taken into account when determining mitigating precautions. How much is really needed if anything to mitigate a 1% probablity risk vs a 50% probability risk. And it can be broken down further to high probablity/low negative result and low probability/ high negative result.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Caught this comment on another board ...

Understand from a friend who participated in the rescue it was a relatively inexperienced diver who decided to go diving solo. Seems he suffered from panic attacks and wanted to get rid of them by facing them solo.....

Not going to assume it's true ... but rather simply point it out as an example of a really bad reason to consider diving solo ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[SparticleBrane]

I can definitely see an argument for 'facing your fear', but that just didn't sound like the best way to do it.

 

[GDI]

Well here are my two cents for what its worth.

Scuba Diving is an adventure sport using life support equipment.
Last statistic for 2007 I remember reading was less than 1 million active certified scuba divers in US population 300 million. Definition for this survey was 5-6 dives a year being an active diver. Thats my count per month if I am on schedule for my diving year in the sport.
Out of this number how many are Solo diving? Probably very small number of the population. Does that make Solo diving elite? My answer is yes.

When I was a US Navy diver on submarines, all our dives were solo. Most professionals understand that solo diving is required and not a lot of time to plan. Back in my Navy daze on submarines our dive team was expendable and they let us know this. I had a lot of close calls, no vis and no redundancy. Boy have things changed, and changed for the better with equipment, training and safety. I was in the Bahamas diving a few years ago and remember the dive master going solo down to the wreck with the bouy line against a current. Reminded me of the "can-do" attitude we had under any situation diving professionally. He had no redundancy.

Considering that the Scuba diving community polices itself and training agencies, I believe we are the most exciting and one of the safest sports available for adults and children. The technical diving community has more knowledge and better redundant equipment available than I did back in the early eighties. Great strides with safety and techniques being discussed, shared and tested monthly. Great ways to share ideas and techniques and questions like ScubaBoard.

With people living longer, people over 50 getting to do things like diving that they did not do younger, we are living in a really exciting time in history. 30 years ago when you got to 30 years old or sooner you were disqualified to dive. Today, modern medicine, good safe practices, procedures and an incredible safety record in recreational diving we can encourage almost anyone to explore the underwater world. More is better since we have a lot of room to grow this wonderful sport of scuba diving, just look at the number of avid active divers available in my first paragraph. This will probably open up to some sad medical incidents diving that have not been seen in the last 20 years, not necessarily directly related to scuba diving, but do to the age of the divers.

I am grateful being located in Central Texas and diving with Texas Swamp divers I have a great group of divers to hook up with whether diving with a buddy or solo diving.

Glad to be able to dive, Glad to be free in this great nation (USA) Glad to be a Texas Diver.

See you diving,

Shawn O'Shea

Good stuff however keep in mind that while as a military (or police/commercial diver for that matter) you have a task to perform that is usually specific and mission oriented. There is a safety team still in place as your dives are monitored (not that this belittles the risk mind you) but I could not think of any dive made in the military that would not have a surface/platform tending team tracking the performance and variables of the dive and diver. In short you may be in the water alone but you are not alone due to a team concept, safety procedures and SOP's. As risky as the missions can be for an operational requirement the military is not noted for cutting safety corners. In twenty years of military service I have never seen a dive team work solely to the individual level as in a solo diver as ment by the context of recreational diving. The Navy/Army dive teams also has a pool of divers to fall back on to complete the tasks at hand.

 

[GDI]

Seems he suffered from panic attacks and wanted to get rid of them by facing them solo.....

Doing a solo dive to face your demons?

Not a great idea. Solo diving is not akin to boarding an airplane for a flight because you have a fear of flying anymore then it should be a mark of bravado. The airplane has people on board who can lend a hand and even land if the situation arises. IN Solo diving you have NO-ONE to lend a hand you are on your OWN!

If you have such fears it is best to keep diving within your comfort levels with buddy divers whom you can trust. (I suggest if you have fears as such that you should have done more supervised dives with your instructor)

On the other hand fear can be a positive reinforcement and motivator if applied in a correct manner, thus controlled. However when your fear is dominant you cannot focus as accurately on the tasks at hand and your awareness of your surroundings, dive status and equipment, your total situational awareness will suffer and place you at a higher risk.
To make such a dive under such conditions could place the diver where one minor inconvenience could trigger a string of culminating events causing the diver to have their perceptional awareness narrow, leading to all out panic.