Hmmm, good point. OK, dropping the shoulder pads as well. Thanks for the suggestions. Now, one last point. The slide releases. Some people swear it is a death wish and say unneccessary. However, I have never seen a tech person get into his gear a fast as I can with my slide buckles. I have the left side unbuckled when starting, then put in the right arm, reach up and grab the strap, buckle it, then buckle the waist, tighten up and ready to help my buddy in his hog perform contortions to get into his rig. I realize the over the head method works good, but on a boat how do you get it on easily? How do you get the rig off in a confined space at depth?
Thinking about going BP/W
- Thread starter khacken
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Rainer
Contributor
It takes just a modicum of effort to get in (completely solved with a friendly buddy). It isn't a race. Big deal, you can get into your current rig in 5 seconds less than me. As for taking it off in the water, this is cake (just pull it over your head). A bit harder to doff on land if diving dry, but really not an issue. Why you would want to take the rig off at depth in a confined space is beyond me (sure, I can invent a situation where this might be necessary, but I'll avoid such situations). In any case, just undo the waist buckle, and slide the thing off.
That really depends on you. I know someone on this board (HeadHunter) who actually uses the over the head method on land... he gets into position, picks up the entire rig and drops it into place over his head. Works pretty much anywhere, boat, land, you name it. One of the slickest things I've seen... wish I could lift my rig like that! In a real emergency, such as removing in a confined space, I don't see it being that much different from removing a BC. They all come off easier under water, but the beauty of the hog harness is if it IS too tight to move enough to get it done, you can simply cut yourself out, and all you've done is cut a few bucks worth of easily replaceable webbing. Try cutting yourself out of a regular BC and see how easily you can repair it!khacken:
I think the generally consensus from the fans of hog harnesses is that you should simply try it before coming to any decisions. Should you decide it really is too much work, there are a number of (arguably) good ways to ADD a quick release to a hog system to make it easier to don/doff in certain situations. I've seen cut someone cut one shoulder strap to adda Quick Release, I've seen weight belt buckles (stainless steel kind) added to hold an extra loop of webbing, there are a number of options. I'll try to find the link.
But the recommendation remains to give it a try before altering anything.
I don't think the plastic buckles are a death sentence, nor did my Fundies instructor say that about them. I don't think they're necessary, and it can be a real pain to find a place to put them where it doesn't interfere with the correct placement of the D-rings and still keeps the release where it's easily used.
When I'm diving a 3 mil suit, it takes me no time at all to shrug into my harness -- I mean, it's literally as quick as putting on a backpack. In the heavy exposure protection I use in the PNW, it does take a little longer. Getting out of a harness in the water takes a little practice, but it's also not difficult. Getting out in a very small enclosed space underwater might be more of a challenge, but why would you need to do that?
When I'm diving a 3 mil suit, it takes me no time at all to shrug into my harness -- I mean, it's literally as quick as putting on a backpack. In the heavy exposure protection I use in the PNW, it does take a little longer. Getting out of a harness in the water takes a little practice, but it's also not difficult. Getting out in a very small enclosed space underwater might be more of a challenge, but why would you need to do that?
I can envision needing to get out at depth in an entangle scenario with lines or nets, but that wouldn't be confined space. Ditto perhaps for wrecks or caves should you attempt too small a passage and get stuck. But those are situations to be avoided anyway, and again, there's always the option of cutting out should things be truly dire.
ekewaka
Contributor
I do that when diving wet, but with a dry suit the harness gets caught on the dump valve.CompuDude:
I use single 80s. It might be a bit more difficult with doubles.
cool_hardware52
Contributor
ekewaka:
Flipping over your head is an option with singles, but is not with doubles. If you see doubles in your future (even the distant future) I'd recommend developing a method of donning that does not involving flipping the rig over your head. What you practice now will pay dividends later.
I should add that "flipping" in the water works ok with either singles or doubles, just plan how you are going to deal with your hoses.
Tobin
Rainer
Contributor
cool_hardware52:
And if you bungee your backup, don't forget to take that off before the rig!
I have about decided that a Hog harness is to diffucult to get in and out of myself. Most of my older gear always had a buckle in the left shoulder strap. It may just be me because my shoulders are messed up from swimming and a few motorcycle "accidents". I may plan to install a metal buckle in my harness but maybe not. The main problem is not durability since it would be a metal buckle but that it might interfere with the position of that left D ring which I often use for bottles.
In a doff and don, the tank is flipped over the head so generally you do not unbuckle the left shoulder. In fact some people still flip their tanks over their head when they are putting them on. N
In a doff and don, the tank is flipped over the head so generally you do not unbuckle the left shoulder. In fact some people still flip their tanks over their head when they are putting them on. N
Yeah, the flipping method is great and fast. But I can't see myself doing that on a small, rocking boat.
As far as taking it off at depth. Well, there are times when I have needed to do that.
Love the idea about using a weight belt buckle instead of the slide.
It really is not a race. However, when dropping into a current, you don't want to be the straggler and make the captain start up again to move back into position.
Oh and I appreciate all of your points! They are very informative. I am going to give the hog setup a try, just as you mention, then tweak it from there.
I do like the "try it, if you don't like it, change it" better than "nope, it must be my way or you will DIE!" hahah, thanks again.
As far as taking it off at depth. Well, there are times when I have needed to do that.
Love the idea about using a weight belt buckle instead of the slide.
It really is not a race. However, when dropping into a current, you don't want to be the straggler and make the captain start up again to move back into position.
Oh and I appreciate all of your points! They are very informative. I am going to give the hog setup a try, just as you mention, then tweak it from there.
I do like the "try it, if you don't like it, change it" better than "nope, it must be my way or you will DIE!" hahah, thanks again.
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