Thinking about a new wetsuit

[stuartv]

The ScubaPro Definition also claims to have infrared-reflective lining. And, I think, even though it doesn't say anything about infrared-reflective, the ScubaPro EverFlex is supposed to be even warmer than the Definition.

Personally, I would not go from a decent 7mm to a 5mm with "infrared-reflective" in any brand. I think all of the top name brands have top of the line suits that are warmer than their low end suits. But, I don't think any of their suit lining technologies are enough to replace 2mm of neoprene.

Specifically regarding the Bare Reactive, I have heard several stories of problems with their zippers. My shop owner says it's not the zipper, per se. He says it is that the suit material is so stretchy and the design of their inner spine flap is such that if you try to zip the suit up by yourself, you'll end up frequently having stuff catch in the zipper and eventually tear stuff up. He said that if you always have someone zip it up carefully for you, it would be fine.

Personally, I'm just looking for any excuse to get a new ScubaPro EverFlex 5/4. It is fully lined with their DiamondSpan lining. I have a pair of their boots with that lining and they definitely seem very warm. I expect the Bare and the EverFlex would be equally warm (assuming equally good fit). But, I have 3 EverFlex suits now and never a lick of trouble with the zippers.

 

[ams511]

Regardless of what you think about the Celiant fabric in the lining, it's a good suit. 5 and 7mm have separate seals at the wrists and ankles, with 11" ankle zippers on those two models. The neoprene is very stretchy, with the suit very comfortable as a result.

When a wetsuit has seals on the neck, wrists, and ankles it is usually referred to as a semi-dry (some call it semi-wet) and should be compared against other semi-dry wetsuits. Also some people claim that stretchy neoprene compresses more at depth and doesn't last as long. I think Jim L. is right, if diving deep in colder water a dry-suit is the way to go. If diving shallow in cold water you can get away with a good wetsuit.

 

[Marie13]

The semi-dry suits I've seen referred to as such have attached hoods. The Bare Evoke/Reactive do not.

 

[MAKO Spearguns]

First off , yes I know temperature and protection are a personal preference thing.
I was reading a review online about the “ newer” BARE wetsuit with “ celiant” technology. It actually made the claim that their 5 mm one piece is just as warm as the leading two piece 7 mm . Looking at their temperature chart on their website seems to say the same thing.
So does anyone have any real world experience with this ?
I guess my big thing is I can’t help but wonder, if that’s the case, there would be a significant buoyancy difference?

Edit my cold water diving is low to mid 50’s

I find it hard to understand how at depth, when the suit thickness is reduced, that 14 mm of neoprene(uncompressed thickness) is less effective than a single layer of 5 mm neoprene?

Elimination or reduction of the exchange of water into and out of a suit is very important, but most good cold water suits do a reasonable job of it (dependent on zippers, and sealing qualities around the neck and to some degree at the ankles and sleeves.

Once "water pumping" is eliminated, then heat exchange (loss) is going to occur primarily via conduction through the suit itself. When the water gets really cold, the benefits of a double layer over the torso become conspicuous - in my opinion anyway.

I believe that the warmest design for a wetsuit is one which eliminates all zippers, as well as a neck seal of any kind. A freedive suit with an integrated hood, a pull over jacket with no zippers and smooth rubber to seal at the face, the wrists and ankles is the warmest design.

 

[stuartv]

When a wetsuit has seals on the neck, wrists, and ankles it is usually referred to as a semi-dry (some call it semi-wet) and should be compared against other semi-dry wetsuits. Also some people claim that stretchy neoprene compresses more at depth and doesn't last as long. I think Jim L. is right, if diving deep in colder water a dry-suit is the way to go. If diving shallow in cold water you can get away with a good wetsuit.

I have often wondered how they decide what to call which.

All 3 of my EverFlex suits (3/2, 5/4, 7/5) have smoothskin seals at the wrist, ankles, neck, and a sealing pad behind the main zipper. They don't call them "semi-dry". Other high end wetsuits are the same. Sometimes I think "semi-dry" is just what they call any suit that is thicker than a normal 7mm and/or has an attached hood.

 

[Scubis]

First off , yes I know temperature and protection are a personal preference thing.
I was reading a review online about the “ newer” BARE wetsuit with “ celiant” technology. It actually made the claim that their 5 mm one piece is just as warm as the leading two piece 7 mm . Looking at their temperature chart on their website seems to say the same thing.
So does anyone have any real world experience with this ?
I guess my big thing is I can’t help but wonder, if that’s the case, there would be a significant buoyancy difference?

Edit my cold water diving is low to mid 50’s

First off , yes I know temperature and protection are a personal preference thing.
I was reading a review online about the “ newer” BARE wetsuit with “ celiant” technology. It actually made the claim that their 5 mm one piece is just as warm as the leading two piece 7 mm . Looking at their temperature chart on their website seems to say the same thing.
So does anyone have any real world experience with this ?
I guess my big thing is I can’t help but wonder, if that’s the case, there would be a significant buoyancy difference?

Edit my cold water diving is low to mid 50’s

I have the 7mm bare reactive. It is the warmest wetsuit I've owned. I use it comfortably between 42 and 60 degrees Fahrenheit. If you're diving in about 50, stick with the 7mm. You'll be much more comfortable. I run pretty warm usually, but getting the 5mm will limit you i think. The 7mm will absolutely be warm enough for 50s. Also very nice stretch on the neoprene. And the high calf zippers make getting it on and off much easier than other suits of similar thickness.
The only other suit that is comparable in warmth and quality would be the Henderson thermaxx. Bouyancy characteristics are minimal from 5mm to 7mm in most cases Small to about XL. 2XL and up means you're adding much more material, so you may need to offset the extra with a couple pounds

 

[stuartv]

The only other suit that is comparable in warmth and quality would be the Henderson thermaxx.

So you are saying that the ScubaPro EverFlex (nor ANY other suit on the market) is no comparison to the Bare Reactive and the Henderson Thermaxx for warmth or for quality?

Can I ask how many dives you have done in each of the 3 (in their 7mm versions)?

I have not dived the Bare or the Henderson suits myself, so I am not disputing what you are saying. I just want to make sure I understand you clearly.

 

[Scubis]

So you are saying that the ScubaPro EverFlex (nor ANY other suit on the market) is no comparison to the Bare Reactive and the Henderson Thermaxx for warmth or for quality?

Can I ask how many dives you have done in each of the 3 (in their 7mm versions)?

I have not dived the Bare or the Henderson suits myself, so I am not disputing what you are saying. I just want to make sure I understand you clearly.

I actually haven't dove the scubapro. My shop carries Huish products, Aqualung, Mares, Pinnacle, Henderson and Neosport. I suppose I should have inserted that caveat. I have dove all of those brands in 7mm full suit and or semi dry. My main diving spots are monterey and Lake Tahoe. So typically pretty cold. My suits in order of preference based on warmth and overall comfort are as follows: Bare reactive, Hollis Neotek (semi dry), Henderson thermaxx (my GFs #1 pick, she also has a bare, and excel semi dry but likes the thermaxx better. she claims its warmer than her semi dry, and a better more comfortable fit than her Bare in the same size.), Aqualung Sol AFX, Bare s-flex(great budget suit for recreational diving) Pinnacle M8 (semi dry), Pinnacle Cruiser 7 (very rugged and durable). These are the suits I carried in my shop. I have dove all of them for at least 5 dives (a full OW class weekend). We carried some other budget suits also but I havent dove them. Most I own, have been given as a demo by reps, or we carry in the rental dept. But my go to's when diving wet are my Reactive or Neotek. I see the Henderson as very comparable to the Reactive, but i like the calf zippers on the Reactive for getting in and out.

I have maybe 100ish dives on my Reactive, maybe 200-300ish on my Neotek (had it longer), less than 20 dives on the Henderson.

Ultimately a suit has a significant impact on your diving experience, especially in cold water. I suggest anyone looking for a suit go into their LDS and physically try them on vs just ordering online based on what some guy on scuba board says. But I can say that in the 4 years i was carrying the Bare Reactive and Bare Evoke (women's version of the Reactive) only one reactive came back with any issues. the liquid seal was cracking over a year after original purchase. Bare replaced the entire suit no questions asked. I just shot my rep a picture. Other than that, no one had any complaints with the suit, and all the follow ups i did had nothing but praise for the suit. I personally have nothing but good things to say about it.

Sorry for not mentioning the scubapro. I know they make some nice high end equipment, but I am not familiar with it. And of course, most of my dive buddies got their gear at the same shop haha so I wont claim that the Reactive is The Best. but from my experience, I dont think you'd be disappointing if you picked one up =)