Thermal Protection thread

[scubashawn123]

Good Day Divers,

During this cold spell maybe we can share our thoughts and experiences on thermal protection while diving this time of year......in the cold water and cold outside weather temperatures

As we know diving loses body heat........if you lose enough you can become hypothermic

Hypothermia and diving from a website:

Diving Medicine: Hypothermia

Hypothermia is a situation when the body temperature drops to a very low degree. Particular disabilities in the human torso happen. Here are the symptoms and suggested method to handle this.

Stage Symptoms

99-96 degrees F Shaking, "Goosebumps", blue skin

95-91 degrees F Intense shivering: beginning of amnesia

90-86 degrees F Skin blue or puffy: muscular rigidity: thinking less clear: 30 degrees F

85-81 degrees F High blood pressure: slurred speech: languid: irrationality

80- 78 degrees F Unconsciousness: cardiopulmonary: disorder in the brain, no movements

Below 78 degrees F Heart fibrillates: edema or hemorrhage in lungs. May cause death!L

To prevent hypothermia when scuba diving, you need to wear thick wet suits or dry suits. It is suggested to maintain body temperature.

_______________________________________________________

For me I do my cold water an cold weather diving with my dry suit and my undergarments is a USIA jump suit (thinsulate type) sometimes I wear a full shirt under the jumpsuit for more warmth.

Recently, I have heard that wearing cotton t shirts or other items like this help to lose body heat in a dry suit. I did wear cotton sweat pants and a cotton Tshirt once and that was a big mistake. I got very cold on that dive.

What do you wear to stay warm during these cold diving days? Let me here your thoughts or suggestions and a very Merry Christmas to all the divers this holiday season.


Regards,


Shawn O'Shea

 

[Crazyduck]

Staying warm in general while submerged is always a problem and has some unique issues.

Starting wet-
7mm, 52 degrees, 20 minutes which is my exposure limit.
The big battle diving wet is stopping water movement in and out of the suit and helping to support warmth in that thin layer.
Dive shirts with fleece offer some additional help in that holding the water.

New to me is the Four Element group out of the UK and is sold by a few people in Texas.
Four element offers a number of solutions- There is an Podcast by Submerge video on specifically what fourth element offers.
Definitely worth the watch.

Next is suits that offer a difference- the Pinnacle Kodiak is a monster suit that I am looking at with then adding a fourth element layer under neither.
It's worth mentioning that if you plan on laying fabrics please take that into consideration when looking at your sizes. You do not want to have a bends problems from hypothermia or from excess compression. I have had my hands swell from wrist seals that were way too tight.

Diving Dry-
Under suit warmth- any fabric that you plan on wearing in your drysuit needs to stay warm wet or dry.
While cotton is outstanding dry it really looses all benefit when wet- like you pointed out.

Other options are dryfit material to lift the sweat off the body and to transfer that moisture away from the skin.
Off the shelf examples are Russell dryfit and Under Armor; this provides only the base layer.
Next you need a fabric that will retain heat in the micro environment that you have created.
Fleece of many styles has differing effects- I tend to look for shirts that have few zippers and is comfortable through a range of motions.
Another option is when all the winter hunting gear and ski gear goes on sale- some interesting options.
Finally folks like Weasel and DUI offer specific products- are some are incredible.

Hybrid Suits-
For us swamp divers it sure would be nice to have a suit that would run from 5mm to drysuit.
But how is this possible you ask? ?
However- you take a 5mm suit add valves, wrist seals, and removal booties, have the right zipper and it is not that hard to image.
The closest I have seen has been a Poseidon suit but no one really carried Poseidon for their suits in Texas.

Ultimately, it's part of the diving learning curve. However, when our dive times are longer than our suits can keep us warm it becomes a real problem.
Drysuits are worth the investment and lowered end drysuits should not be dismissed for their immediate value of warmth.

What I find is most divers buy a drysuit and then only own a 3mm suit for travel. Anything near the word cold and they put on the drysuit with a light layer of protection and then with colder water they add more layers of protection or warmth.

To close on a warmer note- diving in Cozumel in a 3mm suit for 1 hour dives is a blast.
Or for those of us that are relatively insane- DUI 30/30 drysuit with a smile.

Stay warm, have fun!
Andrew

 

[Zinc]

I have the USIA Exotherm II - a 16oz fleece jump suit w/ water & wind resistant shell - Recommended for diving in temperate climate with air temperature from 90 degrees F to 50 degrees F and water temperature from 75 degrees F to 55 degrees.

I add to this a thermal shirt (poly somthin or other) which works nicely to wick moisture away from the skin. I have to agree w/ Shawn that cotton does not wick or insulate when wet. The synthetic poly stuff seems to do the trick well. By the end of a long dive, the outer shell is moist, but the inside poly and fleece are dry. Pretty cool...

Feet = simple wool socks; wool of course is a bit more coarse than fleece, but insulates well wet or dry.
Head = Bare 7mm dry suit hood - I really like the zipper, makes on and off easy, great fit
Hands = Henderson 3mm Insta Dry Gloves - these work great and I can still remove them in water if greater dexterity is needed.

 

[texdiveguy]

Head = Bare 7mm dry suit hood - I really like the zipper, makes on and off easy, great fit

Bullet proof and warm BARE XCD2 Pro Dry.....plus gives me an upper body workout toteing it around.

I love this hood also (I dive only BARE wet/dry suits)....but I did have to trim right below the lower lip for a wee bit more of a comfy fit. Great product thought. Also have an ice cap for those really cold dips.

I prefer quality hd 5 finger 7mil neo gloves over dry gloves.....seem to be better for me (I know strange!!). Easier don-doffing/better fit with equal mobility/rugged/they already 'leak'/and they are 'black'...

PS---- for those of you lucky enough to own a dry suit, get out there and dive that baby.......does no good in the closet...........

 

[oldschool]

Has anyone ever tried wearing an under armor shirt under their wetsuit for additional warmth? If so, does it work?

 

[Heavy D]

For me, if I need more than a 5mm wetsuit, it's time to go dry. I use a Whites Nexus II drysuit. It's on the lower end of the price range for drysuits but it works great and I got the package that comes with everything (undergarments, socks, boots, a carry bag, heck it even came with zipper wax). For undergarments, I use the fleece jumpsuit that came in the package, under armour shirts, or my military gear that includes silk weight undergarments similar to under armour, polypropylene long underwear, and fleece suit. Depending on the temperature, I can use vaious combinations of these but as somebody said, start with a base layer of something that will pull the moisture away from the skin like polypro then add on top of that. Most of the military stuff I use can be found at surplus stores now.

For the head you can't beat a good hood even in moderate temps. I use a 3mm rocky the squirrel type cap from O'neill for warmer times or for cold water, i have a 5/7 with a zipper from Deep Sea similar to the Bare that Zinc has.

For the hands, I have a set of 5mm everflex gloves that work well and are much easier to use than dry gloves IMO

For the feet, I use either the neoprene socks that came with the drysuit, or some fleece socks and if necessary, I have some silk sock liners that I can wear underneath them. Also, and I know this will make you laugh, but women's knee high stockings (kinda like pantyhose) work great also. I know it's funny but their effectiveness at heat maintenance was proven to me when I was doing field exercises in Alaska at 30 below.

 

[Heavy D]

Has anyone ever tried wearing an under armor shirt under their wetsuit for additional warmth? If so, does it work?

I haven't tried Under Armour under a wetsuit but I have a skin that I wear under mine and it helps so I would think that the Under Armour would work similarly.

 

[sibermike7]

After spending 7 years working in Siberia, I have learned first-hand the value of silk. It retains its insulating qualities when wet and is extremely thin. I always start my layering with silk. I like to stay with natural fibers if possible so I also layer with wool over the silk. I even have silk socks!

Last week I had a catastrophic drysuit flood when a wrist seal (installed by an "approved" facility) popped off on my Bare 7mm drysuit. It is one of those wrist seals that kind of snap in. Well, they snap out too!

I kept as much flooding out of the suit as possible and returned to shore. It was about 30 minutes before I had everything back to the vehicle and could strip the suit off. I had water throughout the entire suit. I was completely soaked! However, I was not cold (well, until I stripped the suit off!) Outside the temperature was below freezing.

You should have seen the "steam" coming off of my undergarments! careful now!

I find that hunting stores carry very high grade and thicker silk. I got mine from Cabelas.

 

[Timeliner]

What do I do ?

' Basically I just try not to think about it being cold and enjoy the dive.

 

[thevalkyry]

Has anyone ever tried wearing an under armor shirt under their wetsuit for additional warmth? If so, does it work?

I have worn a henderson rash guard shirt with under armor shorts diving and I would call them very equivalent.