The truth of U-869

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Well since this thread was resurected, let me just add. I just finished Shadow Divers last night. Personally I loved it.

Of course the story was fluffed a little (or more). If it wasn't it would be dry, but as is I loved it. I will maybe look for SDE, but I doubt it. The self published thing always seems suspect.

To me this book is not a dive manual or even a history book. Though history is most often told by impressions and not neccesarily fact. What I know for sure is that it is an awesome read and highly reccomend it.
 
I have avoided this thread over the past few years as it seems to be a no win argument. I have read both books and have a big problem with someone writting a book that is not factual. Since I was not on the boat regarding the chapters in shadow divers I don't have first hand knowledge of errors, however I do know someone who was actually in the book and during the course of diving with them about 20 times they recounted the events in the book when they were actually there to witness them. Their accounting was different from the SD version which makes me wonder what else was changed for literary benefit. I do believe my source and short of putting them both in a room I'll never know with absolute certainy what happened and even then people have a tendency to remember things differently.
 
I have avoided this thread over the past few years as it seems to be a no win argument. I have read both books and have a big problem with someone writting a book that is not factual. Since I was not on the boat regarding the chapters in shadow divers I don't have first hand knowledge of errors, however I do know someone who was actually in the book and during the course of diving with them about 20 times they recounted the events in the book when they were actually there to witness them. Their accounting was different from the SD version which makes me wonder what else was changed for literary benefit. I do believe my source and short of putting them both in a room I'll never know with absolute certainy what happened and even then people have a tendency to remember things differently.

Because of these recent threads involving John Chatterton, Gary Gentile and others, I went back and re-read Shadow Divers and the Last Dive. In doing so, I did note one difference in the recounting of the Rouses' evacuation from the Seeker on the day they died. In the Last Dive, it was stated that the crew wanted the Rouses to be air lifted together because they thought that Chrissy would need to see his father to know that he was still alive and give him hope to keep fighting. In the Kurson account, he told a story of an argument that ensued with the Coast Guard over taking Chrissy alone because he was still alive and Chris Rouse was obviously dead.

That being said, I thoroughly enjoyed both books... again. But I am sure that there are other discrepancies made that I missed.

It would seem these authors attempt to tell a story, and they modify things on their own (i.e. without permission from the people that were there) to make the story flow better or to create drama. Who can say for certain without physical proof (recordings, etc.) that things were one way or the other? Only the people that were there actually know these details, and then only what they personally saw, for sure. In the grand scheme of things, does it matter to the author or most people that read these books? Probably not. Being "based on a true story" as we have all seen in televison and other presentations hardly ensures that the program is 100% factual.

I guess the question really becomes, then, at what point does embellishment cross over a hazy almost indiscernable line of poetic license and become a falsehood, an out and out lie? And if it becomes a falsehood, are there consequences? Does the statement harm others, or does the difference just make for more drama or good copy?

I guess I was always taught that Columbus "discovered" America in 1492... 500 years to the day the Rouses died, BTW. The FACT that Columbus discovered America has been printed in the history books for centuries. But is that fact really the case? Still, that being said, the Nina, the Pinta and the Santa Maria are a great story, nonetheless.
 
How many of y'all have ever been involved in a situation that ends up in news print? How accurate, in details, is the news account with respect to what you personally experienced? For that matter, how accurate, in details is one news source with respect to another?

There are ALWAYS discrepencies ... most times it's irrelevent because they don't really change the significance of the story.

This whole conversation strikes me as a serious case of BFD ... with maybe a tad bit of professional jealousy on Gentile's part ... :shakehead:

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
Because of these recent threads involving John Chatterton, Gary Gentile and others, I went back and re-read Shadow Divers and the Last Dive. In doing so, I did note one difference in the recounting of the Rouses' evacuation from the Seeker on the day they died. In the Last Dive, it was stated that the crew wanted the Rouses to be air lifted together because they thought that Chrissy would need to see his father to know that he was still alive and give him hope to keep fighting. In the Kurson account, he told a story of an argument that ensued with the Coast Guard over taking Chrissy alone because he was still alive and Chris Rouse was obviously dead.

I wondered the same thing....

Chatterton directly covers that question in the difference int he accounts in the two different books in this post. he states the account in Shadow Divers is correct and that the author of Last Dive made a mistake in what he wrote.

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/3278287-post193.html

That being said, I thoroughly enjoyed both books... again. But I am sure that there are other discrepancies made that I missed.

It would seem these authors attempt to tell a story, and they modify things on their own (i.e. without permission from the people that were there) to make the story flow better or to create drama. Who can say for certain without physical proof (recordings, etc.) that things were one way or the other? Only the people that were there actually know these details, and then only what they personally saw, for sure. In the grand scheme of things, does it matter to the author or most people that read these books? Probably not. Being "based on a true story" as we have all seen in televison and other presentations hardly ensures that the program is 100% factual.

I guess the question really becomes, then, at what point does embellishment cross over a hazy almost indiscernable line of poetic license and become a falsehood, an out and out lie? And if it becomes a falsehood, are there consequences? Does the statement harm others, or does the difference just make for more drama or good copy?

.

Read this post here also. Here chatterton states that the author wasn't trying to write a 'text book or history book'. Just pointing this out as FYI and reference to his post....

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/3275168-post37.html
 
to bring up an old thread... but this just out in Gary Gentiles newsletter



from GGP Newsletter for February 2009 (sent via email to his newsletter distribution list)

On last item for those who harbor a continuing fascination for the U-869 and the fictional account of its discovery and identification in Shadow Divers: I am presently completing a retrospective of Shadow Divers Exposed, and the impact it has made since its publication. Details will be forthcoming in my next newsletter, and the new book should be available in a month or two.

To Chuck Wine goes the credit for making the discovery dive on the U-869 - a full three years prior to the events that are related in the greatest literary hoax of the century: Shadow Divers. Bill Nagle, owner and skipper of the Seeker, put Chuck and Bart Malone on a "hang" in order to confirm its existence. Bart got entangled in monofilament on the way down the anchor line, but Chuck continued to the seabed alone, where he became the first person in history to see the lost U-boat since its untimely demise.
It is all part of a story that will be told in full in Shipwreck Heresies.

Stay tuned, folks . . .


:popcorn:
 
I love resurrecting old threads and I never knew there was such controversy surrounding the U-who. I read Shadow Divers, The Last Dive, and another about the Andrea Doria but I forgot the title. I have no experience in wreck diving but find it utterly fascinating. I am curious to read more about the discovery and identification of the U-869.

As an aside with absolutely no proof or evidence of such, it seems that Gary Gentile has a case of sour grapes or some other vendetta.
 
I've read The Last Dive, Shadow Divers, and Shadow Divers Exposed. I enjoyed all 3. A few people may know the whole truth, I'll never be one of them.

Good reading and good diving, Craig

PS I received the GGP newletter today also, more interesting reading on the way
 
Obviously there is a rift in the wreck diving community and it seems the central characters are John Chatterton, Richie Kohler, and Gary Gentile. Much like in football games you choose a side.... :popcorn:
 

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