The straw that broke the divers back.

[OldNSalty]

Here you go Oldnsalty,

JAMA -- Abstract: Cause-Specific Excess Deaths Associated With Underweight, Overweight, and Obesity, November 7, 2007, Flegal et al. 298 (17): 2028

These results are likely to be a simple matter of fuel supply when the body is in a state of extreme stress. Of note, the best survival was seen in the slightly overweight but not obese group.

I studied obesity and metabolism for some time and find these topics interesting. We know so little at this point.

That's the one. So kind of like a bear packing it on before hibernation? If we could whip diabetes and cardio disease being slightly over-weight might be ideal in some circumstances.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I NEVER said nor implied that fat people are automatically bad or unsuitable divers, I simply posted that obese, out of shape divers will be less likely to extricate themselves from a crisis situation and are at greater risk for heart attack while scuba diving and given the choice between two strangers, (dive experience and skill level unknown), one being an obese guy and the other a young slim attractive blonde, I'd choose the latter as a dive partner.

Ah, but the question is would she choose you?

Probably not if she had read some of the comments you've made in this thread ...

As a solo diver I accept full responsibility for myself, and I would prefer to dive alone than with a dive buddy I know nothing about. The odds of me being dependent on them is much less then a panicked diver being a huge liability for me. Call me cold, or cruel, or "an idiot" (your preferred choice of words), but I'm not interested in risking my own life to save a stranger who should probably never have been in the water in the first place.

... and so you DID state that fat or obese people are automatically bad or unsuitable divers. Your positions have been illogical, unprovable, inconsistent, and generally out of touch with reality. But I will give you this much ... you have the tenacity of a badger ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[lulubelle]

That's the one. So kind of like a bear packing it on before hibernation? If we could whip diabetes and cardio disease being slightly over-weight might be ideal in some circumstances.

Patients classified as overweight had increased death rates for diabetes and kidney disease, NOT cardiovascular disease. Obesity of course did not come out well except on non CVD, non diabetes, and non obesity related cancers.

One could almost say that depending on one's family history, the slightly overweight (and active) have the best chance at surviving this world.

 

[idocsteve]

... and so you DID state that fat or obese people are automatically bad or unsuitable divers.

I most certainly did not.

That post of mine you quoted referenced me saying I would not want to be in the water with a diver who had no business being there in the first place.

There was nothing in that post that even remotely suggested I was referring to an overweight diver.

My post in it's entirety:

"As a solo diver I accept full responsibility for myself, and I would prefer to dive alone than with a dive buddy I know nothing about. The odds of me being dependent on them is much less then a panicked diver being a huge liability for me. Call me cold, or cruel, or "an idiot" (your preferred choice of words), but I'm not interested in risking my own life to save a stranger who should probably never have been in the water in the first place. "

My position regarding overweight divers is that they may not far as well in a crisis situation and be more likely to suffer a heart attack than a fit diver, I in no way shape or form suggested that overweight divers should not scuba dive.

 

[lulubelle]

I think the proverbial horse has not only been beaten to death, but has turned to dust.

 

[Hetland]

I NEVER said nor implied that fat people are automatically bad or unsuitable divers,

Sprinkled through your general ridicule of overweight people you DID imply and even state that "fat people" are automatically bad or unsuitable divers.

I simply posted that obese, out of shape divers will be less likely to extricate themselves from a crisis situation

Which is unprovable at best, and doubted by virtually every experienced diver that has responded in this thread.

and are at greater risk for heart attack while scuba diving

Yes, obesity increases your chance of having a heart attack. The sky is blue and I like cheese.

and given the choice between two strangers, (dive experience and skill level unknown), one being an obese guy and the other a young slim attractive blonde, I'd choose the latter as a dive partner.

I know more than a few middle-aged, overweight, sorry-looking male divers that can out swim, out breathe, and out dive most 19 year old athletes. I would trust my life to them without reserve in any diving emergency. I also know a few middle-aged, overweight, ladies that I would also trust, but young, slim, (male or female) divers are almost always inexperienced.

By your "logic", young, slim teenagers would have a better chance of surviving a car accident because they are in better physical condition. Why then, is it so expensive to get auto insurance for teenagers?

 

[idocsteve]

Sprinkled through your general ridicule of overweight people you DID imply and even state that "fat people" are automatically bad or unsuitable divers.

Even if my comments about obese divers could be construed as ridicule, like I said, I never said they have no place in the water, in fact I stated that I too, am overweight by some 25 lbs or so.

I know more than a few middle-aged, overweight, sorry-looking male divers that can out swim, out breathe, and out dive most 19 year old athletes.

I don't doubt it. An experienced diver do better in the water than an inexperienced diver, much more often than not.

young, slim, (male or female) divers are almost always inexperienced.

LOL- You're openly stating that it is your belief that "slim divers are almost always inexperienced". While rather amusing to read and worth a chuckle, I highly doubt you can produce even one credible reference to support that ridiculous claim.

By your "logic", young, slim teenagers would have a better chance of surviving a car accident because they are in better physical condition. Why then, is it so expensive to get auto insurance for teenagers?

Yes, by my logic, a more fit person will have a better chance of surviving a car accident (including the post trauma healing process) than an out of fit person.

Why is car insurance more expensive for teenagers?

Because teenagers are much more likely to get into accidents based on confirmed statistical data.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I most certainly did not.

That post of mine you quoted referenced me saying I would not want to be in the water with a diver who had no business being there in the first place.

There was nothing in that post that even remotely suggested I was referring to an overweight diver.

My post in it's entirety:

"As a solo diver I accept full responsibility for myself, and I would prefer to dive alone than with a dive buddy I know nothing about. The odds of me being dependent on them is much less then a panicked diver being a huge liability for me. Call me cold, or cruel, or "an idiot" (your preferred choice of words), but I'm not interested in risking my own life to save a stranger who should probably never have been in the water in the first place. "

My position regarding overweight divers is that they may not far as well in a crisis situation and be more likely to suffer a heart attack than a fit diver, I in no way shape or form suggested that overweight divers should not scuba dive.

Your memory may not be as good as mine, doc ... here, lemme help you out a bit ...

The fit diver might not even break a sweat or breathe any more heavily than normal while in a crisis, the nonfit diver might be blowing through his air supply like there's no tomorrow. And for him or her, there's a good chance there won't be.

Either you're in good physical shape with great aerobic fitness and muscle tone OR you're an obese out of shape couch potato.

How can you be both?

Even the drop off of a tropical wall in the carribbean doesn't lead to depths as great as that of the human system of denial and rationalization.

"As he drops crumbs from a Hot Pocket into the convenient table provided by his ever expansive gut, the obese rationalizer is proud of his strong abdominal muscles and excellent fitness and can't wait to get back into the water at the start of the next dive season."

Many if not most diving accidents are avoidable and result from diver panic, and many of those panic situations occur because the diver was not fit for the task at hand and over exerted themselves.

Another way of saying it is that the situation would not have occurred had the diver been fit and diving comfortably within their physical limits, so there would not have been a trigger to begin the panic cycle in the first place.

I do believe I erred earlier when I stated that most diving accidents are caused by diver panic, in fact most are due to a diver being out of shape and having a heart attack that was induced by the physical stress of a dive and it's possibly that it would have happened anyway, although probably not in the midst of a competitive game of miniature golf for example.

I bet lots of fat people like to dive...because in the water everyone is weightless, and for once they're on the same playing field as the rest of us.

Until:

- The get into some current that's moving them in the wrong direction
- They surface from a shore dive and find the tide is pulling them out to sea
- They are trying to board the dive boat in pitching seas
- They're trying to outswim a great white shark and they've got a fit buddy such as myself who realizes that all he has to do is outswim his fat buddy and not the shark

That's for starters

In fact I prefer to dive alone because I don't trust the abilities of strangers. But if I HAD to choose a dive partner I probably wouldn't pick the obese guy with his belly hanging over his BCD cumberbun, I'l give you that much.

There's another risk factor for morbidly obese divers that I have not seen mentioned in ANY reference material but I can speak from personal experience on this one, because I took a group trip once and there was a really large dude with us.

Every so often towards the end of the dive, someone would surface and jump on the poor guy, sending him sputtering and gasping below the surface. That in of itself is a panic trigger right there. Finally he got smart and stopped removing his mask and regulator even though the seas were dead calm, but the strange activity continued.

Upon questioning the divers who did this, they all said the same thing.

"We thought he was the BOAT!"

It gets worse...once we were right in the midst of starting a dive, some divers were already in the water, and we got an emergency broadcast from another boat, about a half mile away, warning of a rogue wave approaching the size of a Tsunami! Their boat was completely swamped and in danger of capsizing, and reports started to come rolling in from others in the area. We braced for impact, divers either descended or in a panic, scrambled back up the boarding ladder, and we secured our gear. But it never came, and here's why... in case you haven't yet guessed it...the wave was going away from us. Why? Because it was the result of big dude doing a giant stride off of our boat.

Yes, since it has been concluded beyond a reasonable doubt that the better a diver's fitness level, the greater the chance of survival in a crisis, and since doing more sit-ups increases your fitness level the it naturally follows that the chance of survival in a scuba diving crisis is directly proportional to the number of sit-ups you do on a regular basis.

Thanks for clarifying. In fact, since it has been already proven that better fitness decreases panic, it can be concluded that a diver is less likely to panic and bolt for the surface while holding their breath if they are more fit. At the very least I can safely state that fitness is NOT irrelevant when it comes to a diver holding their breath on ascent (which is usually a result of panic).

I knew you were an obese couch potato before I even got to this part..lol

I got a much Better idea, you come to ME and we'll do a few laps around the track behind the high school. When you drop to the tarmac gasping and sputtering because you've eaten too much, drank too much, and used the treadmill to hang your laundry on, you can apologize to me, and just maybe I'll help you to your feet.

Regardless of how well you do on your dives, your risk of heart attack is significantly higher than those younger fitter guys you "out breathe" on your dives, and should you find yourself in a situation requiring more than your usual amount of exertion, you'd be much better off without that 80 or so extra pounds hanging over your cumberbun.

Taken as a whole, I'd say you have a serious phobia against fat people. Given how you've described yourself, I'd also conclude that you've got some insecurity issues about your own body.

You remind me of the Senator who publicly opposed homosexual unions while at the same time getting caught trying to pick up a date in a public mens room.

Perhaps what you really need to do is learn how to like what you see when you look in the mirror ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[idocsteve]

I'd also conclude that you've got some insecurity issues about your own body. Perhaps what you really need to do is learn how to like what you see when you look in the mirror ...

I am in fact quite unhappy with the 25 lbs or so I've put on in the past few years and my lack of enthusiasm about getting on that treadmill on a regular schedule.

I most definitely do NOT like what I see in the mirror. And although it might work for YOU, I'm not going to "learn to like it". I'm going to work towards CHANGING it.

 

[dmoore19]

Yes, by my logic, a more fit person will have a better chance of surviving a car accident (including the post trauma healing process) than an out of fit person.

Why is car insurance more expensive for teenagers?

Because teenagers are much more likely to get into accidents based on confirmed statistical data.

And if you follow the logic...... They are more likely to get in a wreck because they are less experienced and use poor judgement skill.