The right way to get certified

[Mark Derail]

all lds in my area ask for a cert card before they let you get in their pool, unless youv'e taking classes from them and you're practicing before getting certified.

If there's a liability issue, for sure a LDS will ask. If none...I'm curious about other people, do they get asked their cards if they are shore diving?

 

[oreocookie]

In Quebec, diving from a boat or a non-public dock, you have to show your FQAS & OW cert. However, you show neither to rent anything, just go to any public beach or canal. Though some dive shops probably due ask verbally, I haven't been enough to different ones to know.

I'm not sure this is technically true. I think you could technically be asked for the card anywhere you might want to hop into the water with scuba gear, including that nice deep pool we've got at the Big O. Now if you go shore diving somewhere, you're not likely to get asked because there's not likely anybody there to ask you, but in theory, somebody could ask you for it.

I think the idea behind the card, other than being a tax, is a standardization. There are standardized rules for what a category of diver can do irrespective of what agency card the diver might have and what that agency calls the competency level. The person at the dock checking divers in then doesn't need to know that Agency A's Scuba Diver is equivalent to Agency B's Open Water and that Scuba Diver means something entirely different for Agency B, for example.

As far as shops not asking for any card when you rent gear, the shop your son used to work for was asking as of this past August. I don't go there anymore, but not because they want to see my c-card.

 

[ScubaSteve]

I think the idea behind the card, other than being a tax, is a standardization. There are standardized rules for what a category of diver can do irrespective of what agency card the diver might have and what that agency calls the competency level. The person at the dock checking divers in then doesn't need to know that Agency A's Scuba Diver is equivalent to Agency B's Open Water and that Scuba Diver means something entirely different for Agency B, for example.

Are there stats that show a decrease in accidents or deaths that can be fully attributed to the FQAS implementing this validation tax? I see the government as a body that screws everything up that they touch and also as a body that is not capable of knowing how to determine whether a diver is fit for a dive or not. My opinion only perhaps but if there is a notable decrease in accidents/deaths directly because of this then I would personally say "Good Job" to them.

Just curious.

 

[Mark Derail]

Tip of the hat to Oreo!

Just to state - the three different LDS I've used here in Quebec all asked for my OW certs - only one, where David now works for, asked for FQAS and when I didn't have it, organized right then & there an FQAS course & test.
We missed the 11am boat and took the 2pm one - no big deal.

The "Other LDS" my son worked for (and has lost all good employees except for one) never bothered with FQAS. I honestly don't think many of those divers doing dives at the Kanasake Quarry have FQAS, I only learned of it last summer. So it seems loosely applied, depending on the LDS.


From the FQAS website, it's a federation, a liability insurance, a non-profit and a standardized minimum safety screening.

In 1997, the Quebec Coroner after investigations into scuba related deaths, recommended a standardized testing of various recognized organisations (ACUC, AMCQ, CSAC, NAUI, PADI, & PDIC). The FQAS was born and enforced.

Quebec LDS have their air-filling stations periodically inspected & tested for air quality, also the inspection of the air tanks.

I haven't found any stats on their website. It looks like it was designed in 1999 and hasn't changed much.
Only death reports, the last ones, one in 2006 and one in 2007. From the descriptions, most deaths were all preventable with a minimum of training. Like one guy drowned in 9 feet of water, wearing 58 lbs of weights. Or divers surfacing too quickly.

What is not clear - if FQAS certification is required for non-Quebec citizens. That would be a bummer for a family from New York going to Quebec to dive. I'm sure they'd turn around and go to Lake Champlain in Vermont instead.

 

[RTee]

Tip of the hat to Oreo!

Just to state - the three different LDS I've used here in Quebec all asked for my OW certs - only one, where David now works for, asked for FQAS and when I didn't have it, organized right then & there an FQAS course & test.
We missed the 11am boat and took the 2pm one - no big deal.

The "Other LDS" my son worked for (and has lost all good employees except for one) never bothered with FQAS. I honestly don't think many of those divers doing dives at the Kanasake Quarry have FQAS, I only learned of it last summer. So it seems loosely applied, depending on the LDS.


From the FQAS website, it's a federation, a liability insurance, a non-profit and a standardized minimum safety screening.

In 1997, the Quebec Coroner after investigations into scuba related deaths, recommended a standardized testing of various recognized organisations (ACUC, AMCQ, CSAC, NAUI, PADI, & PDIC). The FQAS was born and enforced.

Quebec LDS have their air-filling stations periodically inspected & tested for air quality, also the inspection of the air tanks.

I haven't found any stats on their website. It looks like it was designed in 1999 and hasn't changed much.
Only death reports, the last ones, one in 2006 and one in 2007. From the descriptions, most deaths were all preventable with a minimum of training. Like one guy drowned in 9 feet of water, wearing 58 lbs of weights. Or divers surfacing too quickly.

What is not clear - if FQAS certification is required for non-Quebec citizens. That would be a bummer for a family from New York going to Quebec to dive. I'm sure they'd turn around and go to Lake Champlain in Vermont instead.

The answer is yes...it has nothing to do with where diving certification was obtained. I was initially trained in Quebec spring frigid water in 1978 and still had to go through the written and practical exam to get issued a card in 2009. The card applies to all those who are contemplating diving in the province and LDS will do just like Mark said...to accommodate divers. The card is good for three years and to renew it they want a proof that you have done at least 10 dives within that period.

What is also interesting are the levels associated with such card because you could only have done the level A (OW level) exams and notwithstanding if you obtained AOW, Adv EAN/Deco, etc, unless you applied for an upgrade (with additional written exams to complete) they would still consider you only good to ...60 ft.

I may renew my card this summer just to ensure that I have no bad surprises this fall when diving at Les Escoumins.

 

[lowviz]

Hey, Matt, I'm in your backyard. Lunch sometime?

Matt, buddy, let's get together for for lunch. Your time, your space, bring anyone you like. I'll show up solo. Separate checks.

We both do an "interview" lunch report, your fans await...

 

[oreocookie]

The "Other LDS" my son worked for (and has lost all good employees except for one) never bothered with FQAS. I honestly don't think many of those divers doing dives at the Kanasake Quarry have FQAS, I only learned of it last summer. So it seems loosely applied, depending on the LDS.

I'm curious who, in your opinion, the one good employee they haven't lost is. Feel free to PM me. Given that Kahnawake is native land, diving there is not technically diving in Quebec so FQAS doesn't apply.

Also, there's one LDS I can think of that would probably never ask to see your FQAS card, considering their local trips are all to just on the other side of the Ontario border, and I don't think you need the card to GET gear, just to USE it. That shop has never asked to see my c-card either, but then I've never rented tanks from them so maybe it doesn't matter. They do like my Visa card though, lol.

What is also interesting are the levels associated with such card because you could only have done the level A (OW level) exams and notwithstanding if you obtained AOW, Adv EAN/Deco, etc, unless you applied for an upgrade (with additional written exams to complete) they would still consider you only good to ...60 ft.

My experience has been that when you do a course that would allow you to upgrade your FQAS level, the "exam" for the new level was done sometime during the course. When I did AOW, we did the level B exam during a surface interval, iirc. If you did your course elsewhere, though, and didn't apply for the upgrade, then yeah, the above is true. You'd also be limited to diving during daylight hours.

 

[RTee]

My experience has been that when you do a course that would allow you to upgrade your FQAS level, the "exam" for the new level was done sometime during the course. When I did AOW, we did the level B exam during a surface interval, iirc. If you did your course elsewhere, though, and didn't apply for the upgrade, then yeah, the above is true. You'd also be limited to diving during daylight hours.

Oreo cookie...you are right if such course was taken in Quebec. Considering that I did my RD, DM and Adv EAN/Deco in Ontario, these exams were not part of my courses, hence my card only indicates level B (because I took my AOW in QC with CPAS).

 

[oreocookie]

Oreo cookie...you are right if such course was taken in Quebec. Considering that I did my RD, DM and Adv EAN/Deco in Ontario, these exams were not part of my courses, hence my card only indicates level B (because I took my AOW in QC with CPAS).

RTee, I thought I covered that at the end of my post, but yeah, if you do courses outside QC they're not going to give you the upgrade exams there. However, I just did a quick search to find out what the "limitations" are for the different levels and found out that if you have certain specialties, that card will allow you to do more than what your FQAS level allows. For example, a B level diver is limited to 30m, but a B level diver can dive to 40m if they have a deep specialty, even though their FQAS card is only to 30m. There's a bunch of exceptions like that, if you want to take a look: Règlement sur la qualification en plongée subaquatique récréative Annexe 1 gives the exceptions.

 

[Mark Derail]

I dive locally for experience...
I dive South to see fish...
Practicing my UW photography.

I have no desire for the higher levels so far, and I feel that if I do AOW with 100 dives experience, the course will be much easier, compared to those that "plow through" as fast as possible to become DM/Instructor.

Following a compass UW in current, or on the surface of the sea and 3+ feet swells, was difficult. Doing compass geometry in such conditions? I rather wait until ALL my skills have become second nature because I've mastered them.