The pros and cons of rebuilding your own regulators...

[Genesis]

but part of being a small-business person is understanding that flexibility and redefining what you are about in that business is often necessary.

I spent 20 years in business trying to find the "magic niche". Eventually, I did. But it took most of those 20 years Mike.

I'm not going to try to tell you how to run your company Mike. That's not my place. But what is my place is to tell you, and others in this business, what it takes to earn my business.

Things are never "too screwed" to make a difference or help Mike. Its a matter of purpose and desire, not size.

 

[Aquamaniac]

Interesting argument.

I would have over 1000 technical manuals in my Office.
Every one of them has torque specs for every fastener mentioned.
Do we use them, hell no, We would never get anything done if we had to torque everything.
Its our discretion as to what we torque. We torque coupling bolts and Main Stator connections, but we dont torque end shield bolts.

Do engine mechanics torque every bolt when re-building your 351 Chev big block? Not a hope in hell. Do they torque the head bolts? Bet your ass they do.

My point is that just because a manufacturer states a spec, it doesnt mean its critical.

Regs are life support, and if your not trying to make money out of services, why not torque them, it cant hurt.
But is it critical?
Depends on how good you are. I can "torque" a fastener to within a few foot pounds without a wrench, so I dont need one, but that comes from experience, a newer "mechanic" may not have the feel, so would be better off using a wrench.
In Summary, it all depends on who is doing what to what.

Dave

 

[MikeFerrara]

Genesis once bubbled...
but part of being a small-business person is understanding that flexibility and redefining what you are about in that business is often necessary.

I spent 20 years in business trying to find the "magic niche". Eventually, I did. But it took most of those 20 years Mike.

I'm not going to try to tell you how to run your company Mike. That's not my place. But what is my place is to tell you, and others in this business, what it takes to earn my business.

Things are never "too screwed" to make a difference or help Mike. Its a matter of purpose and desire, not size.

It's not correct to call this a business where we're concerned. We have put in but nothing comes out. This isn't business and now that we have a better understanding of what people want we aren't putting any more in.

 

[Genesis]

Depends on how good you are. I can "torque" a fastener to within a few foot pounds without a wrench, so I dont need one, but that comes from experience, a newer "mechanic" may not have the feel, so would be better off using a wrench.

Hahahaha.....

I wouldn't take that bet if I were you.

I bet you're not within 10% - heck, probably not within 20%. Probably high too (which is really bad when it comes to overstress failures!)

This has been studied with seasoned mechanics and virtually none are within a reasonable percentage of the spec when asked to do it by hand, without a torque wrench.

Do I tighten EVERY nut or bolt on my engines to some torque spec? No. Do it use it on every bolt under the valve cover, or anywhere else that it retains a moving part, or where loss of that bolt or item may cause damage or worse? Yep. Every one, every time.

It doesn't take much extra time to do it right, and you only have to do it wrong once.

 

[Aquamaniac]

Genesis once bubbled...


Hahahaha.....

I wouldn't take that bet if I were you.

I bet you're not within 10% - heck, probably not within 20%. Probably high too (which is really bad when it comes to overstress failures!)

This has been studied with seasoned mechanics and virtually none are within a reasonable percentage of the spec when asked to do it by hand, without a torque wrench.

Do I tighten EVERY nut or bolt on my engines to some torque spec? No. Do it use it on every bolt under the valve cover, or anywhere else that it retains a moving part, or where loss of that bolt or item may cause damage or worse? Yep. Every one, every time.

It doesn't take much extra time to do it right, and you only have to do it wrong once.

Ill gladly take the bet.

Like I said, if your doing your own stuff, why not, it cant hurt.
If your trying to make money, you cant, YES IT DOES TAKE TIME.
Not time to actually torque the bolt, but you would have to continually refer back to books, that takes time.
I dont expect you to understand that concept, it takes time on the floor to get it, something you have NEVER had Genisis and something you cant read from a book.
I serviced equipment that you can only dream of seeing. So dont try and tell me I dont know what Im doing.

Do you torque the screws when you fit a new card to a PC chassis?........

 

[Aquamaniac]

Aquamaniac once bubbled...


Do engine mechanics torque every bolt when re-building your 351 Chev big block? Not a hope in hell. Do they torque the head bolts? Bet your ass they do.

Genisis once bubbled...


Do I tighten EVERY nut or bolt on my engines to some torque spec? No. Do it use it on every bolt under the valve cover, or anywhere else that it retains a moving part, or where loss of that bolt or item may cause damage or worse? Yep. Every one, every time.

Are we not saying the same thing?

 

[Genesis]

You SURE you've been around that much heavy gear?

There is, by the way, only one right way to do things on heavy machinery. By the book! Most manufacturers produce a very complete and detailed service manual with very precise procedures. An awful lot of mechanics take shortcuts. Its a bad idea - a very, very bad idea. The "success" of people doing it is laid testament to the number of low-hour recreational boat engines I see blown up sitting on docks instead of in engine rooms.

BTW, if you do actually work on this stuff much you soon learn the torque values for the common stuff. You don't need to look all that often after the first few times around the block (literally). Bolts are marked with their grade, and given grade and size there are standard specs, with "special cases" being the outliers.

I refer you back to the so-called "professional" who nearly cost me an engine this spring. Someone just like you, who thought they didn't need to torque bolts properly.

He got lucky, because had the engine blown up it would not have just been the motor - it would have also been the labor to pull the blown one and insert a newly-overhauled replacement. $50k is a low estimate on that work for machinery and labor. It could have easily been half again as much.

How much money do you make when you start eating $50,000 worth of machinery over a few seconds of time to use the correct tool?

In the case of a regulator, its not an issue of money involved. Its someone's life.

Which is more important?

 

[Aquamaniac]

Genesis once bubbled...
You SURE you've been around that much heavy gear?

Yeah, maybe I was Lying.........I got to where I am by sitting in front of a PC THINKING I knew what I was doing

I learnt how to rebuild a 200MW Parson Steam Turbine Alternator and excitation unit from a web page, you caught me out. Dammit.

Learn all the grades? Bolts are marked with their grade?
maybe on your little toys they are.

You just proved to me how little you know,

 

[Dryglove]

I dont mean to butt in here but ill give my two cents worth.I have many years in the automotive repair field.I gave it up many years ago to pursue a more rewarding career but still worked part time for a shop a up till about 5 years ago.

I have to agree there is no need to torque every single bolt on a vehicle.That would be rediculous and way to time consuming.

However there are many critical points that do need to be torqued such as head bolts,rod bolts,main bolts,carrier bolts in a rear axle,plus many more, etc

Then there are not so critical points such as water pumps,valve covers(yes i have never had the need to torque a valve cover and have never had one warp or leak to date),alternator brackets,plus many more, etc

As you become a seasoned repair technician(a fancy term for a grease monkey) you can eye or feel a bolt and grab the proper size wrench the first time,you get a feel for the torque and not over tighten or under tighten.Yes it may not be dead on but if its not a critical point it isnt gonna hurt.If you dont have much experience working on vehicles or equipment its hard to tell you that you just arent going to fit a torque wrench in some spaces.Most torque wrenches are bulky and clumsy.If it is not a critical point that is where you use your experience and expertise to tighten that bolt with a short wrench or a stubby ratchet that you can get your hand into that tiny space with.

I have also built many high performance motors.Many of these engine are still purring 10 years later.Torque is a lot more important in high revving engines along with balancing and a host of other goodies.

Would i feel comfortable rebuilding a reg without a torque wrench.....yes i would and yes i have.Also let it be known i do my regs only and am willing to put my life on the line cause i know what is too tight and what is too loose.

 

[joens]

metric fasteners are stamped onthe head with a number indicating the hardness, standard bolts have a series of hash marks indicating the hardness. example 3 marks = grade 5
If there is anyone out there who can tighten a fastener to
20 inch pounds + or - 10 % by feel you come to my shop in hartley texas and demonstrate and I will give you your pick any single tool out of my snap-on tool box I know I cant do it and I have been a mechanic for 15 years and I am shop foreman now

joens

but you have to go diving with me after I have full tanks ready
let me know ahead of time if you need a specific nitrox mix