The pros and cons of rebuilding your own regulators...
- Thread starter The Chairman
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an example of the FUD tactics you've used, then you turn around and give me a shining example in the next sentence.
And you STILL havent' answer the multiple questions - who do you work for and who are you affiliated with?
Never mind the many, many, many stories of people having their regs "serviced" and finding on the very next dive that they don't work right. It happens SO OFTEN, in fact, that Rodale's even recommends that you NOT have your kit serviced just before you vacation if you can't manage to dive it locally first - where you can take it back if it malfunctions!
If the record of these "professionals" was so good, such a recommendation would be pure folly, would it not?
You say that we're all a bunch of sue-happy folk. Perhaps. But in this case, at least, why is it that you think shops (and perhaps, just perhaps, YOU!) would have something to hide FROM? After all, these shops are ALL professionals and NEVER make a mistake when servicing someone's kit, right?
So if there is never such an error made, what's to fear?
And you STILL havent' answer the multiple questions - who do you work for and who are you affiliated with?
Never mind the many, many, many stories of people having their regs "serviced" and finding on the very next dive that they don't work right. It happens SO OFTEN, in fact, that Rodale's even recommends that you NOT have your kit serviced just before you vacation if you can't manage to dive it locally first - where you can take it back if it malfunctions!
If the record of these "professionals" was so good, such a recommendation would be pure folly, would it not?
You say that we're all a bunch of sue-happy folk. Perhaps. But in this case, at least, why is it that you think shops (and perhaps, just perhaps, YOU!) would have something to hide FROM? After all, these shops are ALL professionals and NEVER make a mistake when servicing someone's kit, right?
So if there is never such an error made, what's to fear?
You insist that divers should trust their life to other people.
You don't think its reasonable that they expect those who they trust with their life will put their livelihood and wealth on the line (personally) while entrusted with that life, however.
You further think its irresponsible for people to trust themselves with that same life, even though its their own azz that is in the sling if they screw up.
You further think that you will get the same care and attention to detail when paying someone $50 for something (and thus limited to the time constraints that this imposes in a commercial environment) as when they can take several HOURS to do the same job themself.
And when called on all of this, you refuse to address the issues, and instead insult.
You don't think its reasonable that they expect those who they trust with their life will put their livelihood and wealth on the line (personally) while entrusted with that life, however.
You further think its irresponsible for people to trust themselves with that same life, even though its their own azz that is in the sling if they screw up.
You further think that you will get the same care and attention to detail when paying someone $50 for something (and thus limited to the time constraints that this imposes in a commercial environment) as when they can take several HOURS to do the same job themself.
And when called on all of this, you refuse to address the issues, and instead insult.
Give it up while you still can.
As I recall from previous posts, Genesis is convinced that the entire dive industry is part of some vast right-wing conspiracy to take his assets fifty cents at a time by charging him for gear and air fills. Anything you say that is contrary to his world view is part of the conspiracy.
careful, your tears are gonna fry my hard drive. If you want to run with the big dogs, you gotta pee in the tall grass. Nothing personal here my friend. If you are insulted by my opinion, so be it. Are you gonna sue me?
By the same token, you are entitled to your opinion. But please, don't try to tell me what I think, or draw conclusions as in this last post.
I am entitled to draw my own conclusions based on the evidence in front of me. If you don't like that, too bad. Either present more evidence to refute the opinion I form and the conclusions I draw or give up.
You speak out both sides of your mouth on this. I could go back and cite a dozen examples, but I need only one. In this case you made it easy, putting them in two sequential sentences.
You can't at once tell me that I'm entitled to my opinion but that I'm not entitled to draw conclusions. One is part and parcel of the other.
Exactly what is your problem with someone like me doing my own reg? That I might win myself a Darwin award? Heh, cool - you have one less nemesis to worry about out there calling you on your hypocrisy. What's your problem with that?
Or is the truth that the first time someone disassembles their own reg and finds that the last time they had it in for "professional" service it was poorly done the stock in trade which you so highly value suddenly depreciates?
Perhaps even depreciates to near zero?
Do you rail against people doing their own brake jobs? Do you effort parts manufacturers to control access to brake pads? Master cylinders? Boosters? Why not? The risks there are INCALCULABLY higher than they are in this instance, because they essentially ALWAYS involve innocent third parties. Not so when diving with a self-serviced reg!
Do you further argue that it should be ILLEGAL for Midas to do brakes for $50 an axle? Or for the LDS to do regs for $50 a pop? Why not? If its manifestly unsafe for a DIVER to do their own, taking all the time in the world, why not the dive shop that does an "underhaul"? Is slapping in a parts kit superior to a diver taking their time, carefully cleaning, inspecting, and reassembling their own reg? You and I both know the answer to the question - the difference is, you won't admit it in public.
Or is it all ok in your word as long as someone else is dependant on that dive shop, someone else pays one of your buddies (or even you, natch), and everyone in the "industry" hides behind every liability shield they can find when they screw up and get someone hurt - or worse?
God forbid that divers actualyl become SELF SUFFICIENT, understand how their gear works, that it really isn't mysterious or all that complicated, that the average piston first has all of a half-dozen "working" parts, how all those pieces are put together, how to FIX it, and why proper care and maintenance is important. Why, we can't have that! We might have divers jump into the water without a PAID "professional" DiveMaster around to shepheard them through the nasty ugly waters, never mind slapping a parts kit in their regs.
The Dive Industry SHOULD support self-sufficiency, understanding of the hardware, tearing down the walls of mystery and promoting SAFETY through doing so.
Am I safer driving my car knowing how exactly my brakes work? Yes. Why? Because if I detect something "funny", by knowing how they work I have a better idea about whether I can complete my trip to the grocery store safety, and fix the brakes tomorrow, or whether I need to pull over RIGHT NOW to avoid ramming the guy at the next red light.
You want to deny divers that knowledge and understanding by claiming that its all "rocket science" and it takes "intense training and great professionalism" to do it right.
Never mind that I've yet to see the shop with a torque wrench calibrated in in-lbs hanging on the wall, yet virtually EVERY manufacturer has SOME kind of torque spec for at least one piece of hardware in their reg.
So much for "doing it professionally." :bonk:
You are entitled to an opinion. However, in order for you opinion to be worth anything, it must be based on facts and experience. So, without further ado:
1. What is your certification level?
2. How many dives have you logged?
3. How many dive shops have you visited since certification?
4. Of those shops, how many allowed you to inspect their regulator repair station?
5. Given that you seem to look for the lowest possible cost, is it possible that the shops you frequent are cut rate budget operations that, in fact, don't have the proper equipment?
I ask these questions for two reasons. First, I have seen my LDS' regulator repair station (it was part of my DM training). They have a nice set of new tools, specifically including small torque wrenches. I find it peculiar that you seem to have such difficulty finding quality service and equipment. Second, answering the questions will allow us to form our own opinions of your posts.
Have a nice day
1. What is your certification level?
2. How many dives have you logged?
3. How many dive shops have you visited since certification?
4. Of those shops, how many allowed you to inspect their regulator repair station?
5. Given that you seem to look for the lowest possible cost, is it possible that the shops you frequent are cut rate budget operations that, in fact, don't have the proper equipment?
I ask these questions for two reasons. First, I have seen my LDS' regulator repair station (it was part of my DM training). They have a nice set of new tools, specifically including small torque wrenches. I find it peculiar that you seem to have such difficulty finding quality service and equipment. Second, answering the questions will allow us to form our own opinions of your posts.
Have a nice day
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