The Philosophy of Diver Training

[InTheDrink]

Terry has a point. The "career" of being a diving "pro" is a fairly recent invention designed, by and large I think, to sell "pro" classes so that a few CDs can make enough to scrape by on the backs of those whom dream to the dive bum life, so that agencies can crank out new instructors and to assure that shops have such an oversupply that they never have to pay a living wage.

Ok so right. How exactly do you propose to turn this particular clock back? It's surely simply the market in operation.

J

 

[InTheDrink]

And this is kinda the problem with you guys. There's a lot of navel gazing rather than looking at the world we live in and what we can do now, rather than how we wish the world was.

It's getting late.

Goodnight.

J

 

[Guy Alcala]

The point would only be a theoretical one - whether it is possible to create a high quality course into economically viable chunks. To see whether a high quality course could compete on the open market with these McDonald's diving certifications.

I am pretty sure it's nothing you'd want to do, nor would I, but it's just to see how one might create a quality course that had appeal to the mass market in competition to the lowest common denominators like PADI.

J

Well, I guess we'll see soon, when GUE starts offering their Recreational Diver Level 1 course: at least 8 days and 60 hours minimum, at least 10 lectures, 10 CW and 10 OW dives; extra required if the class is done in a drysuit; includes Nitrox cert. I don't know what they'll charge for it, but since Fundies (min. 10 hours) in my area usually costs around $550-$600, it seems reasonable to assume this class will run well upwards of $1,000. Max. ratio 8:1 land, 4:1 water, less if conditions require.

But then, I don't think this class needs to compete with the mass-market classes, it only has to advertise itself to reach the right target audience; people who know they're serious about diving, and the diving friends who'll recommend it to them.

I have a couple of friends who may wish to dive someday, and if I were asked which way to go, I'd recommend taking this course any day over the SSI/PADI route I followed. And I'd have no trouble recommending SEI, if I knew of any local instructors; they really need to put instructor info on their website. I'd also recommend NAUI, although I only know of a single instructor in our general area. They may decide to go the cheapo route, but at least they'll have an idea of what the differences are, which was more than I did when I started.

I do not believe it should be the role of agencies to promote diving as a mass-market sport; the primary reason for doing so is to increase profit by generating more divers who can buy more equipment.

If we truly wish to make diving mass-market, then let's remove any need for certifcation at all, and let whoever wants to fill their tanks. That's the model that is followed by all the other 'dangerous' sports I've been involved with, rockclimbing, mountaineering, sea kayaking, skiing etc. It's up to the individual to reduce the risk to themselves through any method they choose, whether that involves getting professional training, mentoring, or just trial and error. Inevitably, some people will die through stupidity/lack of knowledge or skills. But that's just the way it goes, and this puts the primary onus for safety back where it belongs, on the individual participant.

Of course, this being the U.S., we'd need to pass absolutely air-tight laws against any liability to whoever filled the tanks, providing that the contents of the tanks met the appropriate health and safety standards. Since this flies in the face of the U.S. tort system, whose motto apparently is "no matter how dumb your actions/decisions are, it's never your fault, there's always someone else to blame and sue," this won't be easy.

Guy

 

[Jim Lapenta]

If you want an SEI instructor near you PM me. I have a list and can check. The instructor list is in the works for the website. But for now either HQ or me can get you the info.

 

[Guy Alcala]

If you want an SEI instructor near you PM me. I have a list and can check. The instructor list is in the works for the website. But for now either HQ or me can get you the info.

Thanks, Jim, when and if the day comes and if it isn't on the website yet, I will. FWIW, my friends and I are on the eastern side of San Francisco Bay.

Guy

 

[InTheDrink]

I do not believe it should be the role of agencies to promote diving as a mass-market sport; the primary reason for doing so is to increase profit by generating more divers who can buy more equipment.

Re-read your statement above and tell me what is wrong with it?

Your belief.

Against commercial realities.

Wow.

Dream on. Or alternatively get real.

I really don't know where to start with your sentence. Every part of it is either wrong or so naive as to be astonishing. You think that your wishes are going to impact an organisation making profit? Ok great - so what you going to do about it? Nothing? Brilliant - thanks then for your insight, it's moved us a long a great deal. I despair.

J

 

[Guy Alcala]

Re-read your statement above and tell me what is wrong with it?

Your belief.

Against commercial realities.

Wow.

Dream on. Or alternatively get real.

I really don't know where to start with your sentence. Every part of it is either wrong or so naive as to be astonishing. You think that your wishes are going to impact an organisation making profit? Ok great - so what you going to do about it? Nothing? Brilliant - thanks then for your insight, it's moved us a long a great deal. I despair.

J

The commercial reality is that most sports are niche sports, including the ones I listed. And yet, the equipment makers turn a profit, because the people who want to do this stuff tend to do it for years. And none of them require training before they'll sell you product (although a few retailers do). Are you saying that scuba is somehow inherently different from all these other sports?

Guy

 

[InTheDrink]

The commercial reality is that most sports are niche sports, including the ones I listed. And yet, the equipment makers turn a profit, because the people who want to do this stuff tend to do it for years. And none of them require training before they'll sell you product (although a few retailers do). Are you saying that scuba is somehow inherently different from all these other sports?

Guy

No, I'm asking you how you're going to turn the clock back.

I agree with all the wrongs, including instructors also issuing certifications - a clear conflict of interest.

But what you wish is one thing - god there's so many things I wish for. But tell me about a plan to change the status quo and then I won't think you're just dreaming.

Good night (and this time I mean it! )

J

 

[InTheDrink]

No, I'm asking you how you're going to turn the clock back.

I agree with all the wrongs, including instructors also issuing certifications - a clear conflict of interest.

But what you wish is one thing - god there's so many things I wish for. But tell me about a plan to change the status quo and then I won't think you're just dreaming.

Good night (and this time I mean it! )

J

And yes Scuba is different. It does require training and there's a market for that cos people don't take to breathing underwater well in general. I'm from a climbing background. No training apart from my Dad and then peers. It's different from Scuba, especially cos Scuba's an easy money maker: all comers welcome.

You don't get the same profile of people lining up for rock climbing or mountaineering - or looking at it another way; there's no market for it.

Scuba might be niche but the market is big enough to make it non-niche and to make selling training completely viable. That's the only thing you need to factor in to your equations.

J

 

[diverrex]

Scuba is different, because of the bouyant nature of water lots of people that are overweight and/or out of shape can particpate in an adventure sport. They can't easily do that in climbing for instance. That helps create a bigger market. Throw in failrly easy certification and scuba becomes bigger than a small niche. Plus the appeal of warm beach vacations makes it a natural add-on for people to participate once or twice a year. Not saying any of that is right or wrong, just the way it is.